video cam: make/model; pluses/minuses

[corinna2u]

For purposes of recording fencing action, who uses a video camera? What is its make and model? What do you like about your video cam? What are the things that really irritate?

I suppose knowing how much it cost would be nice as well...would put the pluses and minuses in better perspective.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Well, well, well...(rubs hands together) your options are limited only by the thickness of your wallet. For the moment, I'll assume you are looking for a consumer camera, not a semi-pro/professional model. Here's some thing to look for:

There are several levels and formats of cameras on the market:
VHS and 8mm are at the bottom. Hi-8 is an improvement, but is still older technology on the way to being phased out. It's also prone to "hits" (little 1/10-second black lines or artifacts marring the image on the tape)

DV (digital video) is the latest wave. Don't be fooled by the "digital 8" label on some cameras--it has to say DV or mini-DV to get the benefit of the better technology. What is that technology, you ask?

Regular camcorders record their signal onto the tape using an analog system. Without being overly technical, it mainly means it is arranging iron oxide fragments on the tape in a way that can then be decoded and played back. The drawback mainly comes in copying. Each generation from the original tape degrades noticably...that's why when your friend makes a dub of "The Musketeer" from his used VHS tape to another VHS tape, it looks muddy and blurry.

With DV technology, the images and audio are recorded as digital information on the tape. When it's dubbed to another DV tape, or into a computer, it's transferred digitally, with virtually no loss of quality. You can dub it several times tape to tape, or load it into your computer, play with it on a non-linear editing program, and then output it back onto a DV tape, and it should look just like the original. (There are some issues with compression in loading it into computer, but that's another thread!)

However, if you dub a DV tape to a VHS tape, you will still have to deal with some quality loss.

The camera:

I'm fond of a camcorder with the pop-out side viewfinder. It makes it easy to hold the camera at chest level with several points of support for a more stable shooting platform. It's also a whole lot easier to see than looking thru the itty bitty viewfinder.

Absolutely buy a camera with "image stabilization." It dampens the perceived camera movement as you're handholding the shot.
Don't be overly impressed with a "300 to 1 Zoom Ratio," or some other large number. Most of the long zoom ranges are merely digital pixillation increases that make the picture look like dog doo.

I like to find the camera that costs the most for the least amount of frills like fades and "special effects"--most of which you won't use in fencing, and I always go for the higher end lense system, if two models are otherwise similar.

Most camcorders these days also take digital stills and digital movies onto a chip or memory stick. Be advised that the live action movies on almost all the consumer cameras record at a very high compression rate...which makes them look odd and jerky when you play them back off the memory stick.

Generally, I would try to spend at least a $1,000 on a DV camera...that way you're getting a much better than average system. I just bought a Sony TRV70 mini-DV to shoot home movies of fencing when I don't want to use my professional BetaSP television camera. It's very nice quality, and shoots excellent still pictures on a memory stick. With any of the cameras, get lithium ion batteries (long life, no memory, don't need to be drained before recharging) and the biggest memory stick you can afford.

If you want to go even higher, there are several good options. Sony makes a DVCam camcorder called the PD150. DVCam is like mini-DV on steroids--bigger, stronger, much higher quality tape recordings.

Next step up is the new JVC High Definition camcorder, altho it only records in high-def in the widescreen 16:9 format. Both the PD150 and the JVC set you back $3,000 or more.

With any camera, I recommend several accessories: a good tripod (fluid heads are best), a remote charger, and a remote playback unit for the tape. Doing a lot of rewinding and shuttling looking for that one sweet touch in three days of competition video puts a lot of wear on your camera's video heads and tape path. Remote playbacks often have better slo-motion capability, as well.

That's a very basic look...let me know if there's something else you're looking at or unsure about.

[JEC]

Originally posted by Capt. Slo-mo
... your options are limited only by the thickness of your wallet. For the moment, I'll assume you are looking for a consumer camera, not a semi-pro/professional model.
...
Next step up is the new JVC High Definition camcorder, altho it only records in high-def in the widescreen 16:9 format. Both the PD150 and the JVC set you back $3,000 or more.

That's a very basic look...let me know if there's something else you're looking at or unsure about.

I agree with all the above except the JVC comment. Wallet refills are often needed. If you thought that fencing is an expensive sport, this can make huge holes on your budget.

Now, regarding the JVC there are two models available the consumer (GRHD1) and the semi-pro (JY-HD10U). I own the latter, and certainly recommended better than the first model. These cameras are the first two consumer (under $20K) models that allow recording on a High Definition format (720p 30fps or 480 60p) or SD (480 60i using 4:3). However, you could also record Standard Definition or downconvert the HD to SD. Downconverting still appears to give better picture definition. The problems with this camera at the present time are mostly two:
a) Limited dynamic range for low luma or bright locations
b) Limited editing software choices with need of top notch computer editing suite.
This is not a videocamera for a novice, and you need a GOOD tripod/head. However, this is the future of videocameras.

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/f...l_id=MDL101394

What is different between the JY-HD10U (professional model) and the GR-HD1 (consumer model)?
The cameras are mostly similar, but there are a few differences which cater to professional needs. The professional version has 2 XLR (unbalanced) microphone connectors vs. a mini jack. Other differences include a color bar generator, audio level indicator in the viewfinder and a higher resolution viewfinder (180,000 vs. 113,000 pixels). There is some difference in picture quality, especially edge enhancement which has been balanced, shaped and reduced to match professional applications.

In my view, the edge enhancement for the GRHD1 kills the camera. This has reflected in the prominent price drop from 3 to 2 K in less than 4 months, while the HD10 has dropped less.

[Peach]

For those of us without a spare $1000, are there any recommendations at lower prices?

[zeidolon]

Hrm, my advice:

1) Digital Zoom is crap. Don't waste money on something that claims 1billion x digital zoom. Optical zoom is the more important factor (lens quality).

2) I agree with all of the other comments above. Don't get suckered in by a bunch of extra special effects features.

3) You get what you pay for. If you are going to make the investment, don't be cheap.

4) Before you buy it, play with the demo model, and hold it in different positions. Does it hurt your wrist? Can you find the right buttons without looking? Does it feel comfortable in your hand? How well does it react to light changes?

5) Invest in a good tripod while you are at it. Get a sturdy one. I have a Quantaray QSX2001 which was pretty cheap, but very solid. Haven't had any problems with it at all, and it is fairly lightweight.

[JEC]

Originally posted by Peach
For those of us without a spare $1000, are there any recommendations at lower prices?

Peach, you could write it off as an educational/professional expense if you are using it to teach your students. Just a thought.

[corinna2u]

I am very interested in the Sony comments...my uncle is decently placed at Sony and he can get some nice deals. Since his one and only daughter (my lovely cousin) is getting married in April, I might be able to work this out with him. And pick up a cam at the wedding.

[darius]

JEC,

So is Digital8 not digital? I've read that the quality is comparable to MiniDV.

I'm scoping out fairly low-end equipment (want to stay under $500), since it's not for professional usage, just for bout analysis within the club and at tournaments.

It has been my experience in the digital and film camera market that there are usually one or two superb values in the low-end consumer range which deliver a comparable featureset to a more expensive camera. But in video, I'm not really sure what to look for. Are you aware of any great values?

darius

[corinna2u]

Has anyone got, say, a $300 to $500 cam that works decently for training purposes, but wouldn't necessarily make great home movies?

ah...what darius said...by a few seconds...

[picojeff]

I just recently spent a week doing all the online research I could to pick a very cheap video camera to record bouts for training purposes. My criteria included small size since I will often want to stuff this into my already overstuffed fencing bag when I travel, reasonable optical zoom, and for some reason I got fixated on miniDV so I didn't seriously look at any other format. As far as I can tell, all new camcorders have image stabilization (digital, not optical), which was a requirement but turned out to be a no-brainer.

The camera I settled on is the JVC GR-D90, which I bought from an eBay storefront in an open-box deal for $339 (US). I don't expect it to be the end-all in terms of quality, and it's not the smallest or best in any single category, but it kind of hit the sweet spot in that price range, maybe leaving me enough money for a tripod, an extra battery and a few tapes.

I'll let you know how it works for me. It's supposed to arrive today.

Capt. Slo-mo, you suggest "the biggest memory stick you can afford". My reading led me to believe the memory stick was only for still photos, which I don't plan to use my camcorder for at all. Does it do something else?

[JEC]

Originally posted by darius
JEC,
So is Digital8 not digital? I've read that the quality is comparable to MiniDV.

Darius,
It's digital but recorded using older technology, which is comparable but slightly inferior to miniDV. There are multiple miniDV camcorders at low prices. I still use a Sony TRV-11 that I bought in '00.

PicoJeff,
Memory sticks in camcorders are only used to store digital pictures.

[picojeff]

I promised a review, and here it is. I've used my JVC GR-D90 a couple times, and it is adequate.

The size is nice, and the features are simple and easy enough to use. I did have to consult the manual several times to understand a couple things. For example, slow-motion playback isn't possible except via the remote control. That's one reason to get the D70 or D90 instead of the D30 which doesn't have a remote.

The quality of the recording is fine, but not stellar. The slow motion playback is smooth and frame by frame is crisp. It responds slowly to commands from the remote, especially when trying to pause playback or switch into slow-mo. This may be unavoidable with a tape, but being used to instant feedback on a home DVD player it seems sluggish.

The 16x zoom is way more than I've needed in any situation so far. Maybe when I'm sitting in the stands someplace trying to film a final it will be necessary, but so far it hasn't been.

The big problem it suffers from is very slow focusing when turned on, sometimes taking 10 seconds or more to lock focus the first time, which is really annoying, and if it has something near and something far in its view it may not lock focus at all. It also seems to jump just out of focus for an instant now and then while recording, like it's testing to make sure it really is in focus or something. It doesn't neccesarily detract from watching the fencing, but since I noticed it, it has bugged me. Maybe it will happen less on a tripod, I haven't had a chance to check.

All in all, I got my money's worth. $339 is a good price for this camcorder, and I'm satisfied. It does what I wanted when I chose it, and it does everything I need it for right now. But, next time I will probably spend a bit more to get something a hair nicer.