Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Wolfman140 · 09-24-2003, 12:04 AM

Hey everybody,
I was wondering if anybody knew if it was legal to have a decoration on the front mesh of the mask. Can I spray paint some design on it or anything? Just figured it would be kinda bad *** to have a design on it. Thanks.

-Kevin

edew · 09-24-2003, 01:25 AM

As long as it's not a sabre mask where the paint prevents the blade contact making a closed circuit.

Of course, something offensive might be a definite no-no. Where's that picture of Paolo Milanoli's evil clown mask?

cowpaste · 09-24-2003, 03:08 AM

Here he is. I pulled this photo off some random website. Enjoy. :P

JEC · 09-24-2003, 09:09 AM

At Nationals, Santelli had a few spray painted mask (Foil/epee) with pirate, skull, ghost, etc.

Wolfman140 · 09-25-2003, 12:15 AM

Thanks everybody, you more than sufficiently answered my question...And damn, that one dude with the flaming clown face if friggin' freaky. :-)

-Kevin

R. Exnicios · 09-25-2003, 02:00 AM

Not to be the Buzz Kill but if a referee wants to stop you from using a painted mask they can and often do. There are several sources of authority.

A. Marks
(a) Definition
The mark is the name or badge which identifies the origin, the manufacturer or the seller of a particular piece of the fencer's equipment.
As soon as the mark exceeds the normal or authorized dimensions, it becomes an advertizement and comes under the jurisdiction of the regulation below (cf. Chapter IV, section C).
Marks may assume non-rectangular shapes but their areas may not exceed those equivalent to the dimensions below.
(b) Position and sizes
1. The articles of the fencers' equipment may carry the following visible marks:
Mask One mark, maximum size 6.0 cm x 5.5 cm, on the rear of the spring.

. . .

(b) Fencing clothing and equipment
No advertizing is permitted either on the clothing or the equipment of a fencer (weapon, mask, etc.) nor any other display (badge, name, etc.), other than as authorized above (cf. Chapter IV, section ...

cowpaste · 09-25-2003, 02:32 AM

Yeah, but can't you argue that it's not an advertisement? Suppose I put a giant cow on my mask face, what company am I advertising for? Since it's just some random painting, how could anyone call it an advertisement if it shows no correlation at all with any company?

R. Exnicios · 09-25-2003, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cowpaste
Yeah, but can't you argue that it's not an advertisement? Suppose I put a giant cow on my mask face, what company am I advertising for? Since it's just some random painting, how could anyone call it an advertisement if it shows no correlation at all with any company?

Unfortunately, that doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be for a company or product.
It could be for some cause, protest or even a future product or company. The Nike swoosh was marketed for several months before it was connected to the shoe company. The publicity code is vague for a reason. It gives the organizing body broad authority to control advertising, commercialism or inappropriate displays.

Now in reality at a small event it's probably no problem and all in good fun but there is that risk. And you are at the mercy of the referee and/or bout committee.

Cheers

cowpaste · 09-25-2003, 02:49 AM

That's a real shame. I guess it's always a good idea to bring a spare, plain mask then, eh?

The plain masks are just so boring. I remember how excited I was the first time I saw a simple colored/lexan mask.

By the way, the rules you quoted are from the FIE rulebook right? Is there a similar rule in the USFA rulebook?

rory · 09-25-2003, 09:11 AM

Incidentally, it is actually posible to paint a sabre mask and still keep it legal. Leon Paul have done some - one's worn by Paul Hoenigmann, Scotland Sabre Captain (and it was worn successfully at the Commonwealths I might add).

The trick is apparently to angle the sprayer so that the paint doesn't adhere to the front of the wires, but the underside, then scrub of any paint from the outside by hand.

It gives a slightly "faded" effect, but it works really nicely.
picture

lochinvar · 09-26-2003, 04:12 PM

The FIE is stickier about it than the USFA. Though R. Exnicios is correct that in FIE competition the ref can be a wet blanket by invoking the "advertising mark" rule, I have a correspondence in hand from the head of the officials committee for the USFA where he specifically states that there is no rule governing colors or designs on masks and all such colors and designs are permitted in USFA competition. I'm not at my own computer right now, but I will post the letter at my first opportunity.

This is all assuming that you aren't planning on painting a big blue Ford oval on your mask, which would obviously be a violation of the advertising ban.

Inquartata · 09-26-2003, 04:45 PM

Saw a foilist at a big regional tournament once with eyes painted on his mask. Looked quite goofy.

If you want to get an impression for how the effect really comes off, go to an SCA rapier tournament, where this is standard practice. ( There are some who go still farther and glue wigs and Van Dykes to their masks, trying for that Cavalier look. VERY goofy. )

I don't understand the drive, myself...but then, I'm there to fence, not to "cut a dashing figure" or indulge my vanity. And fencing is expensive enough without dreaming up new ways to spend money...

lochinvar · 09-26-2003, 04:53 PM

Ah, but we all know you have a purely utilitarian soul, Inq. It's one of the things we like about you.

R. Exnicios · 09-26-2003, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cowpaste
That's a real shame. I guess it's always a good idea to bring a spare, plain mask then, eh?

The plain masks are just so boring. I remember how excited I was the first time I saw a simple colored/lexan mask.

By the way, the rules you quoted are from the FIE rulebook right? Is there a similar rule in the USFA rulebook?

That is from the USFA rulebook. You just hit the nail on the head of the flaw with the USFA rules. They are taken from the British translation of the FIE rules. They do not tell us anything about local tournaments.

I've said this before; the USFA rules are very poorly written. If something ever comes up like the challenges US Track & Field run into with equipment challenges or athlete qualifying the USFA is going to be caught with their pants down (so to speak).

Fencers should read the rules over and over again. Look for the loopholes and the gaps. You never know when you will need to file a bout committee appeal.

Cheers.

"Fence like a Cat" · 09-28-2003, 02:09 AM

Stephanie's mask...she runs a kitten rescue group.

MikeHarm · 09-28-2003, 09:04 PM

She did a great job with the mask from the looks of it.

PisteOff · 09-29-2003, 01:08 AM

Here's one I did:

Kind of a crusader thing.

I wound up painting over it because:

a) I felt it was discourteous / distracting to my opponents
b) the silver kind of glared when the light hit it just right.

==PisteOff==

R. Exnicios · 09-29-2003, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lochinvar
. . . I have a correspondence in hand from the head of the officials committee for the USFA where he specifically states that there is no rule governing colors or designs on masks and all such colors and designs are permitted in USFA competition. I'm not at my own computer right now, but I will post the letter at my first opportunity.....

Could you post that letter when you get a chance?

As usual we here conflicting statements from the FOC folks and if you bring in FIE's people it's a real train wreck! This was actually the subject of a conversation (over drinks of course) with two FIE officials and others . The two FIE Officials, of course, did not agree with each other.

An FOC official cannot change the approved rules (not even King George); all they can do is offer their official interpretation. I think the bottom line is that you are at he mercy of the bout committee. If the boat committee wants to say no, it’s no. Even without the Advertising rules etc. The broad sportsmanship and disturbing order etc. type rules can always be used to stop just about anything.

Cheers

Wolfman140 · 09-29-2003, 10:09 AM

Are you guys using just spray paint and some stencil-like technqiues? If using spray paint, you have to use a far-away fine mist so it doesn't glob on and/or drip right?

-Kevin

PisteOff · 09-29-2003, 11:18 AM

I have to recommend "Krylon" spray paint. It dries very fast, and seems to cover evenly and without gunking up the mesh. Remember to spray it from several angles to get a uniform coat on the mesh.

Be sure to bag the bib and use masking tape around everything else you DONT want paint on. You can also dab a wee bit of Elmer's white glue on rivets that you don't want painted, since when dry you can just peel it off.

From experience I'd also say that highly contrasting colors create more of a stir. You have more of a chance of squeaking this by directors if the mask colors are all dark or at least similiar, e.g. black/grey, black/blue, silver/white, black/dark green, etc.

Good luck...