Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Mo · 09-22-2003, 12:44 PM

The USA Women's Saber Team consisting of Caity Thompson, Sarah Parker and Rebecca Ward fought their darndest and beat the Russians for the Gold Medal 45-36.
Rebecca Ward Placed First in Women's Cadet
Sarah Bormann OFA was 9th
Daria Schnieder was in the top 8.
All the girls fenced very well but as usual they had to fence each other and took each other out. Daria lost to Becca in the round of 8.

It was a close and well fenced bout by both girls.
Max Williams came in Second but only because he had to forfeit the gold medal bout due to extreme dehydration and muscle cramping. The US Men also had to fence each other to get into the finals. They had great top finishes too including a third place in team but I am too tired to remember much else!
It was a great meet for the USA. The kids are strong and fenced well.

The time changes are hard to deal with.

afc fencer · 09-22-2003, 10:28 PM

Congrats to all the guys and girls every one fenced great. Becca just fenced so well. It was pretty cool to see someone win there first international tourney. As mo said Daria Schnieder made top 8. Sarah borrmann and Audrey Barroso made top 16. Anika Davis, Mera Keltner, Beth Knauer and Dagmara Wozniak made top 32.
Mo it was great seeing you and your daughter there. I hope yall had a good flight back.

JEC · 09-22-2003, 11:13 PM

Congrats to your daughter, and you and your husband in supporting her. Best wishes, JEC.

Capt. Slo-mo · 09-23-2003, 11:11 AM

At the risk of gratuitous cheerleading:

Way to go Audrey!

Anyone hear how the other cadet men finished besides Max Williams?

afc fencer · 09-23-2003, 12:02 PM

Thanks so much. I felt real good about how I fenced.

I dont really know how the boys placed. I know John Wolf made top 16. I know alot of the boys made top 32.

The boys USA team 4(Joe Liu, John Kloepper, and William Randolph) beat USA team 1(John Wolff, John Berkowsky,Jeff Spear and Max Williams,) to make the gold medal round. USA team 4 fenced well but lost the bout and ended up 2nd. USA team 1 lost to get the bronze, and ended up 4th.

This was a really great comp. I had so much fun. Ill post some pics when i get a chance

edew · 09-23-2003, 12:49 PM

If the US cadets do so well in Europe, where I'm guessing their best cadets are attending as well, why make them pay for the long trip? Request the europeans to fly out here instead!

Capt. Slo-mo · 09-23-2003, 02:17 PM

It sounded like the organizers of the meet were somewat surprised by the size of the turnout. Extra hotel spaces had to be acquired. We were told that at the Cadet level, many of the European clubs don't have the money to send their kids to a lot of events...and especially not in the USA.

On the other hand, if they can get 117 women Cadet fencers to show up for the Poland Cup, surely 50 or 60 of them might be convinced to hop the pond for an American Cadet World Cup That's Not Really a World Cup competition.

vigia · 09-23-2003, 04:29 PM

Congratulations to everyone!

Mo -- I know it is not a secret club, and that it is run by very dedicated people who are doing their level best. But let me remind you why it is so important to have transparency in all of this.

Remember, long, long ago when you didn't know the difference between a pool bout and a DE? Remember how confusing it all seemed? And then after years of being involved, you began to glean not only the rules of the sport, but how all the infrastructure of the USFA seemed to work -- National Rankings, National Teams, etc? I don't know about you, but I found it a frequently mysterious process. Yet once I knew a little bit more about things (much thanks to this forum!) it wasn't really all that mysterious at all.

So here you are, a parent who is still on the learning curve. From local competition to the National level, it finally all hangs together. And maybe not this year, but soon, Interntational competition at the Cadet level is the next rung on the ladder. So you've learned to read and re-read the USFA manuals, pay attention to the web site, read these forums, etc.

Due to lack of experience, what still seems unclear are the exact mechanics of how the USFA organizes fencers to go to international tournaments. There is some mumbo-jumbo in the USFA manual, but all in all, like many of the details that preceeded it, it ain't real clear how this takes place.

Then whoa! Out of the blue someone posts on this board something about World Cup Cadet fencing (with fencers already selected and on their way no less) which is mentioned exactly nowhere in anything the USFA *or the FIE* has published on paper or online. Apparently there is an email you get when you are exalted enough to compete. Well, yeah, it all feels mysterious all over again. Just when you thought you'd learned where to poke and peek and to pay attention, this completely non-obvious process takes place.

OK, now I know. The USFA doesn't have the time early in the fall to get it together to put an event like this on the schedule. If a fencer is in the top 16, he/she gets an email or some other communication. No secret club, pretty straight forward. Seems a bit odd that with all the attention paid to posting schedules that this would fall through the cracks, but there you have it. Not a world-shaking problem, but not a bad opportunity to reflect that for those still on the way up, a small attempt to communicate something this important more clearly could go a long way to making it all feel less like "a secret club".

Again, congrats to your fencer and all the others.

Vigia

Capt. Slo-mo · 09-23-2003, 05:44 PM

There really isn't a vast right-wing conspiracy here. (Well, there IS one for oil exploration and letting contracts, but I digress)

The material in question is available for learned perusal.

Page 3.1 of the Athlete Handbook: (2002-2003)

A designated Cadet "B" is a European competition for those who meet the age criteria for Cadet fencers and at which Cadet fencers can earn Group II points for team selection. The USFA limits the number of entries in accordance with the National Cadet Point standings as of the entry deadline for that competition. Athletes below 12th in the standings must be recommended by the National Weapon coach. In some instances, the National Weapon coach will plan a week of training in Europe in conjunction with the Cadet "B". If there is more than one Designated Cadet "B", points will only be considered for one-the one with the greater number of points earned. Partial funding may be available for the top Cadet fencers fr one designated Cadet "B". Notice will be sent to the group of athletes eligible for funding. At least one coach and a referee will accompany the delegation.

The table for the handbook showed Dourdan as the designated Cadet for last year. Those same tables also show all the designated Junior an Senior "A" meets. What about this year?

Well, there you have a definate beef. We haven't received one, nor have many others, I suspect, so newer fencers wouldn't have had the material to refer to. Here's another circular irony. How did we get last year's handbook? It was mailed because we had a fencer in the top 16 of cadet or junior or senior. It is also available as a download (last year's only at this point) but we wouldn't have known about it, probably without the direct mailing from the USFA. Go figure.

I guess the point is that, unlike as mentioned by others, this meet was NOT open to all cadet fencers. Those that met the top 12 criteria were notified by e-mail. It seems silly to think that the USFA would also send an e-mail to every other fencer saying: "You can't go to Konin, but we thought we'd just let you know about it, anyway."

vigia · 09-23-2003, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Slo-mo
Well, there you have a definate beef.

Case in point. Right now, on the homepage of the USFA website the top link is "Eligibility To Enter a World Cup". Absolutely nowhere does it mention anything about Cadet B events. Junior and Senior A's are quite clearly laid out, but not Cadet B.

No vast, right-wing conspiricy (except as noted in the previous post), but gee, it wouldn't hurt to have posted some of this stuff. These are important, points generating events. People other than those invited might actually care about how all this happens and how it works.

veeco · 09-23-2003, 07:34 PM

It would have been appropriate to put the eligibility requirements for Cadet events, but since the title of the document is "Egibility Requirements to enter a World Cup" then the omission may not really be an omission, as what is laid out in the Athlete Handbook is quite clear.

I guess in this kind of situation it's better to be proactive. If you have high aspirations, contact the national coach for this weapon. They are the ones who designate the tournaments at the beginning of the season, and their email addresses, contact info are available on the USFA website.

Boo Boo · 09-24-2003, 06:37 AM

I really agree with Veeco on this - things are the same in the UK.

If you want to go to A-grades/Cadet Bs or anything similar that requires "selection" - and you in a realistic position to be eligable - then contact the selectors (in the US you have national weapons coaches, in the UK we have national weapons captains).

Ask them directly what the selection criteria are and express to enthusiasm to be selected if there is space available.

Boo

vigia · 09-25-2003, 08:15 AM

Boo Boo/Veeco, good advice. Thanks.

esgrimista1 · 09-25-2003, 04:43 PM

Congrats! We saw Becca, Kaity and Sarah after a year of not seeing them and not only did they grow tremendously buy their progress was really remarkable. Way to go!

vigia · 09-25-2003, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by afc fencer
The boys USA team 4(Joe Liu, John Kloepper, and William Randolph) beat USA team 1(John Wolff, John Berkowsky,Jeff Spear and Max Williams,) to make the gold medal round.

That is quite an upset. Can anybody give a summary of how the bouts went?

afc fencer · 10-01-2003, 10:32 AM

Found a place with full results:
http://www.mat-fencing.com/PPjun2szablaKwyniki.html

vigia · 10-01-2003, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by afc fencer
Found a place with full results:
http://www.mat-fencing.com/PPjun2szablaKwyniki.html

Outstanding. So much for the old saw that says the Europeans (especially the Eastern Europeans) are so much better than we are. It looks like we really gave them a run for their money.

Peach · 10-01-2003, 02:01 PM

A girl I know who was there told me that the Europeans apparently spend much more time on footwork at this age and don't learn as much bladework, at least in sabre.

Mo · 10-03-2003, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by afc fencer
Found a place with full results:
http://www.mat-fencing.com/PPjun2szablaKwyniki.html

AFC,
How the heck did you find that site??
You did very well! Congrats. Your fencing gets even BETTER every time. Was very nice to see you too.
Gonna win the Cadet at Overland Park?? We are predicting you and Zuzanna in the gold medal bout!
Go girl.

afc fencer · 10-05-2003, 01:16 PM

Quote:

AFC,
How the heck did you find that site??
You did very well! Congrats. Your fencing gets even BETTER every time. Was very nice to see you too.
Gonna win the Cadet at Overland Park?? We are predicting you and Zuzanna in the gold medal bout!
Go girl.

Thanks. I feel like im fencing alot better. It would be pretty cool to win the cadet.

I found that site trying to find out about godollo and thats what came up lol.

Cant wait to see yall in louisville! Congrats to your daughter again!