Epee Question

[jasontw]

Hello Everyone!

I've been reading this discussion board since I started learning fencing about 1/2 years ago and I really find this board very helpful with a lot of expert advices!

This is my first post and I would like to ask for some advice and help. When I took the beginner's class at our local club the instructor taught us foil. For most of the time we were just working on footwork and some simple trust and parry. I've taken the beginner's class twice and just recently my instructor told me that my fundamental was okay and I could join the club to learn more advanced stuff. But the problem I have now is that I have to choose my weapon now.

Since I've only touched foil I am not familiar with other weapons. After watching the club members fencing I am very interested to learn Epee, but I've read in many places that height seemed to play a major factor in Epee. After i watched the club epee fencers I tought height actually plays a bigger factor in foil because the shorter epee fencer could just attack the arm, whereas the shorter foil fencer would have to try closing in more in order to hit the target area. I've done a little dry foil fencing in the beginner's class and I was actually doing good against taller guys (actually I am the shortest guy in the class; the other guys are all over 6 feet and I am just 5'8"), but I know we are all beginners so this doesn't mean anything. I just want to supply as much info and see if you guys can please give me some advice on whether to change to epee or just stay in foil because I need to make my decision soon. For me personally I feel there's no difference because I am always going to fence much taller guys in the club whether in epee or foil and closing the distance will always be my problem, plus I am thinking maybe epee is easier. But again I am just a beginner so if I said anything wrong please forgive me and correct me!

Thank you all in advance!

Sincerely,
Jason

[noodle]

if you want to go epee, your height shouldn't stop you. height gives you a little edge, sure. but so do a lot of other things, so it really isn't something you should consider a major reason to not go epee.

[Inquartata]

Yes, choose the weapon that calls to you. I've always been a proponent of following your inclination, no matter whether your coach wants you to do something else or you think you might somehow do better in something else. Give epee a try, and if you find you like it better than foil why, that's what you should fence. And better to be just good doing something you love than great doing something you don't...

[lfortier]

By all means, pick the one thats the most fun for you- its hard to progress if what youre learning doesnt interest you...There was a quiz on here about a week ago called "What Kind of Fencer are you?" to help you fit your personality with the correct weapon.I believe that the website was
http://www.dcfencing.com/greg/WhatKindofFencer.asp?
Hope this helps, and happy fencing!

[epeefencer74]

Yes Height does play a role in Epee, but I've seen and trained epeeist who are short, 5'7'' - 5'10'', who have won national level competitions. They often make up for their lack of height with speed, accuracy and their game involves more taking of the blade and oppostions than direct stop hits and attacks. So don't worry about being short, it shouldn't pose a hinderence to you becoming a good epeeist.

[bjacobs]

Height matters. All things being equal, being taller will win you touches. But all thing aren't equal. I'm a 5'5" former sabre fencer who's now doing epee, and the footwork and speed sabre's given me works as a decent counter to even the tallest. The attack to the arm isn't the short man's weapon against the tall man; the tall man can hit your arm as you attack easier than you can hit his, and attacking directly to the arm is difficult. Your goal should be to stay completely out of his reach, then take or beat the blade to give you time to close distance where you actually have the advantage.

[Gav]

Do what you want. If Epee is calling to you then give it a go.

Height doesn't play as much of a role in Epee as many people seem to think. There are many other factors involved. I've met and fenced some very succesful short fencers - height isn't that big a deal.

[MyraTrue]

So, I know I'm repeating everything everyone else has said, but GO FOR IT! Fence epee.

I know the "I'm too short" situation well. I started in foil, like most fencers, and had a friend (an epeeist) hassle me to fence epee. I told him repeatedly that I was too short, and stuck by that for several months. Then I tried epee, and I've fenced epee ever since. While I'm told I'm not TERRIBLY short for a woman (I'm 5'6"), I'm not tall by ANY stretch of the imagination. I fence men almost exclusively, and most are at least 9+ inches taller than me! But I fence them juuust fine.

So, does height matter? Height is like a tool- its like a good flick, or a fleche, or so on. If you can use it right, it does a lot for you. And actually, being "short" also has advantages (close quarters are the place where we "Short" people have the advantage because shorter arms allow better manipulation of a blade, and we can hit at closer ranges than taller people). I learned early that I couldn't just straight arm a touch through, because a taller person's touch lands first. But I can hit their hand just as soon as they can hit mine.

Your box of tools may be slightly different from a taller fencer, but you can fence just as well, no matter the height. Good luck!

Myra

[jasontw]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you all so much for giving me valuable tips and encouragement! I'll go to the club and start learning epee this week. Again thanks for helping me out!


Sincerely,
Jason

[D'Artagnan1673]

Jason,

You asked a question that to my understanding has not been answered. Is epee easier than foil? Like many questions one may ask in fencing, this question does not have a definate answer.

From a rules perspective, epee is easier than foil. There is no right of way to decide whose touch gets priority. There is no fallable director to make arbitrary descions based upon visual observations concerning right of way. In epee, a touch is awarded to who hit first, or both if hits are registered within 1/25 of a second from the other.

Looking at this perspective, epee is by far easier than foil. However, some people may find that epee is much harder from a tactical perspective. The right of way issue also goes both ways. In foil, you have right of way to guard your attack. Epee gives you no such protection. Your opponent can counter your attack with a nice touch to the arm and your "attack" is nullified by his "counterattack".

Personally, epee just makes sense to me. I get confused with all the rules of foil, wheras the art of the counterattack makes perfect sense to me. You will find that foilists may think the exact opposite. My point is simple, each weapon is meant for a certain type of person. You must decide what weapon suits you best. Chances are that if you feel an inclination towards epee, you stand a good chance of preferring epee over foil.

I fenced foil for sometime before making the switch to epee. I played around with epee for a long time before making the switch. My coach said that I should stick with foil because it is a teaching weapon. I followed that advice and was stuck fencing a weapon that I felt little interest in.

It sounds like you are on the right track. You have learned the basics of fencing, now its time to get out there and figure out your weapon.

Good luck.

[wari]

some times a coach will help you to chose the right weapon, that depend on the way you like to fence and your caracter.If you are patient and fence more in defence than offence, I will suggest Epee but if you are more of an aggresive and like to attack more than fence in defence than I will sugest foil or sabre.

[MyraTrue]

I warn you, it'll be hard to go back to foil.

See... they take away the hands, and arms, and the feet and mask, and then I'm upset, cause all the BEST places to hit someone are gone! But you develop all sorts of WEIRD fencing tendancies that worry the foilists. *eyes a certain foilist that will prolly worry more than others*

And as to attacking, I attack... I fenced foil pretty well when I "fenced foil" and I still attack in epee. Its just that you can chose your tactics by the opponent. If he attacks a lot, and I can pick off his hand, I'll do that. But sometimes its a matter if I can't bring him to me, then I must chase after him.


hehehehee.... neeeding sleep

[MediaGuru]

I love epee... granted my teacher did things a little bass-ackwards by most people's standards, because he started everyone on sabre (simply because it was his favorite weapon) and I must admit, I liked sabre (because I am physically faster and stronger than many people. I think of all the weapons, strength is a bigger factor for sabre -- you can slam right through people's weak parries)

Anyway, then we tried epee a little bit, and THEN when we got a new instructor, we switched to foil (and also switched from French to Italian style)

Now, here's what I have to say about epee: most people I know who have tried it and gotten a little better at it like it far more than foil. If anything, I'd say epee is the best weapon for a VARIETY of people (different speeds, strength, height, width, etc.) because, by extending the target range to the entire body and by removing right-of-way restrictions, a whole new WORLD of possible moves and tactics is there. Angulation/stop-attacks to the arm will work for some people AGAINST some people, but no one move will work for everyone OR against everyone. That's the great part. So then what it comes down to is your MENTAL ability -- how quick can you figure out what kind of opponent you have, and what their weaknesses are. It's all a matter of perception and quick-thinking, and the ability to try some crazy or unique stunts sometimes. So if you can do that, you can be good no matter your size, age, or gender. I'm a 6', 170lb male ... my toughest epee opponents to date have been short women, who decided to use some unique (sometimes even unorthodox!) manouvers, and always had me guessing and on my toes!

[Inquartata]

Now take that complexity and multiply it times ten or so and you have sabre...

The unfortunate thing about epee is that while it CAN be fenced the way you describe, too often it isn't---and those who don't do it thus can also be very successful. Hence, epee is the weapon which gave us that wonderful new inactivity penalty.

The one thing you will never see in sabre is inactivity.

[westcoastsabre]

Inq,
I guess you haven't been to a novice sabre tournament lately.

[Kismet]

I started off in foil, but I was constantly eyeing the epeeists on the other side of the room. So...I switched to epee, and I love it way more than foil. And I fence foil once in a while, and I really don't like it anymore..I'd never go back to it. I'm an epeeist at heart.

But the thing is...I'm only 5'5"! Which is extremely short for epee, but it doesn't really matter. I make up for my lack in height with my vicious manner. I tend to be on the brutal end of epee. Whatever. And I also look at it like this: I'm smaller, therefore my opponent has a small target area. My oppenents are bigger, therefore my target area is bigger. Also, I have a better chance at hitting my opponents knees than they have of hitting mine. hehe.

But, because I am so short, every opponent of mine is likely to be bigger than me, even if I was a foilist. So...you just learn to adapt.

The point is, there ARE ways to get around being short.

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by westcoastsabre
Inq,
I guess you haven't been to a novice sabre tournament lately.

You're confusing inactivity with inability.

[downunder]

lol inq