what makes a good junior fencer?

[yoyo]

for U13 kids, how would one identify potential good future fencers? is it the flexibility, the speed, or even arm-span/height ratio?

thanks in advance

[mtarascio]

Attitude, willing to work, love of game.

[Boo Boo]

Enthusiasm, discipline, diligance and responsiveness.

Fitness, endurance, strength, power, speed, acceleration and flexibility can all be worked on quite easily. Of course being a "natural athelete" makes things easier, but not being one shouldn't limit a child's potential (just means that they will have to work harder to get there). A natural sense of timing and distance is also useful, but can be developed.

It is whether a child:
- wants to learn (be good);
- is disciplined enough to do the work involved to become good;
- is diligant in how they use their time and practice sessions; and
- can respond well to what they are being taught or asked to do (i.e. a quick learner...).
that are most important...

Being not particularly tall isn't great, but can be overcome.

If a kid has potential, then they need the enviroment to grow: a good coach and, preferably, some good opponents to practice against.

Boo

[achilleus]

Could you clarify by what you mean 'good future fencers'? Does that mean cadet or junior national teams? Or a senior national team?

Having coached youths before, several of whom had a desire to make a team, I observed 6 criteria that are necessary to obtain that goal. They are:

1) Parental support (emotional)
2) Money
3) Drive
4) Coach support
5) Time
6) Talent (mental first, physical second)

And I roughly place them in that order. There is some flexibility in the order of priority. I've seen some people who are loaded with talent able to overcome deficits in the other areas, however, more often I see kids loaded with money and a parent's push do well.

[yoyo]

Originally posted by achilleus
Could you clarify by what you mean 'good future fencers'? Does that mean cadet or junior national teams? Or a senior national team?

I meant cadet and Junior Nationals.

A lot of good points indeed! I think parent involvement is very important, there is a difference between dropping off kids at the salle and actually fencing along side with them. The emotional support is also very key especially when kids learn how to deal with defeat.

Money and physical fitness/flexibility etc are not something everyone has access to, but as long as kids love the game, it will be a fun experience.

[achilleus]

Originally posted by yoyo
I meant cadet and Junior Nationals.

A lot of good points indeed! I think parent involvement is very important, there is a difference between dropping off kids at the salle and actually fencing along side with them. The emotional support is also very key especially when kids learn how to deal with defeat.

Money and physical fitness/flexibility etc are not something everyone has access to, but as long as kids love the game, it will be a fun experience.

By parental support, I don't necessarily mean fencing alongside, but that they want their child to compete, and strive to be a champion.

Many parents are content having a sport for their child to play as opposed to traveling the world (missing school) and competing. It's an important distinction to note. That's what I am refering to as parental support.

Very few people have access to all those points, and some have access to none of them.

Please note, that the 6 criteria are for here in the US. I'm sure the criteria vary from country to country and maybe even region to region.

[yoyo]

Originally posted by achilleus
Many parents are content having a sport for their child to play as opposed to traveling the world (missing school) and competing. It's an important distinction to note. That's what I am refering to as parental support.

very well said.

[Talyn]

All of these are good points but I think mtarascio is right when he says that its really up to the kid.

If he/she likes fencing and takes it seriously then he will undoubtedly improve faster than other kids his age.

[Wizardly]

It may fall under te heading of "wanting to learn," but it's also important for the kid to actually want to be there. "You can lead a horst ot water, but you can't make him drink." If fencing is being forced on the kid, the kid is just not going to do anythign but sit there and goof off.

[sabreman]

I will need to check with MO.

[FencerMom]

My belief is that a fencer who wants to make the cadet/junior team has to have:
1. Love of the game enough to want to put in the hours it takes to train and go to all the events you can.
To learn the most, get the most experience, those who move up fence 10-20 hours a week in training. You also miss 1- 4 days a month of school to go to the national events. If you make the national team, it is another 3-7 days a month more during the junior season for international events. You have to have the love of the sport to give up all social events, organize your school work well so your grades don't suffer (lucky home schoolers have it a little easier). To continue this for 2-7 years it takes to get up there, your love of the sport must endure.
2. A good coach.
I have seen talented kids from other clubs who had the ability, but not the benefit of a high level coach. They could do a lot better with a different coach.
3. Talent and heart.
To make the team you do need talent, the work ethic to develop it. And the heart to want it.
4 Parental support.
This takes lots of time and money. Time driving the under 16 kids to the club 4-5 days a week (a 40 minute one way drive these days for us). Time driving them to the local, regional and state tournaments. Time from work getting them to the national, then international tournaments, unless you have a large enough club to work out a system to have a chaparone and only send one parent. Money, whew. It costs for a saber fencer at the junior/cadet level about 10-15K. If you go international it pushes it up to 20-25K. That's where you need to have your club develop a foundation to raise money, ask your relatives, friends, borrow.
But, as a parent of one that has just reached that level, for me all the time, money, worry, has been well worth it. It is a pure joy to watch these kids compete. And if it all gells, they accomplish their goals. If not, they have learned so much along the way.

[Jous]

The most important thing to becoming a great fencer is the desire to be the strongest there is. If you have that, you will go to any lengths possible to achieve that and never give up. If a fencer has great athletic ability, a good coach etc. but doesn't think they need to be the best will probably (IMO) stop pushing themselves further at one point, and will go downhill.

I think this because it's what I have. Frankly, my coach blows and makes lots of coaching mistakes and can instill bad habits. He starts newbies off with saber. He not only reccomends it, he DISALLOWS anyone to not start in saber and he yells at people for using a French/Italian grip instead of pistol when fencing epee/foil. Also, he has a strange en guarde stance in saber. He wants you to have your feet exactly together, with no space in between. He says it allows for more mobility, which I don't think it does. Even if I'm wrong and it does let you go a bit faster, it definetly can throw you off balance a lot more. While I have only been fencing for not long over a year, I've read a bunch of boks on fencing and had other (better) coaches give me lessons and they reccomend basically the opposite of much of what he does.

Even with all this, I have the will to be the best so I don't quit or anything....my coach doesn't like me because I don't really listen to him but that's just me.

[yoyo]

Originally posted by FencerMom
It costs for a saber fencer at the junior/cadet level about 10-15K. If you go international it pushes it up to 20-25K.

I assume this is per year figure?

as to missing school days, I guess most of the events are held over the weekends, so it shouldn't be that bad? I know from another sport that most of the local/regional opens are on weekends, but Junior Olympics is indeed during the week.(not too sure about NAC's)

[rory]

I would think that the days off school will be for travel to and fro to events - fencing events aren't as common, and you may have to travel pretty far to get to them.

And to the fencer whose coach makes him go en guarde with his feet togther - providing you've explained it correctly, your coach is an idiot. Find another one.

[The0ne]

The top two requirements are good coaching and money. Realistically there are hundreds of fencers who love the game, love to learn and have a good work ethic. The ones who make it to the National teams, have good coaches and money. Hopefully the fencer's drive and work ethic can make up for lack of good coaching and money, because I don't have either!

[Mo]

Originally posted by sabreman
I will need to check with MO.

Ok Saberman!! Here I am in Warsaw, in a cyber cafe and I read this post! I laughed so hard everyone started staring at me!!!!
You may speak without my permission as long as you ask first!