Boy, You folks hit the nail on the head

You folks hit the nail on the head- to some in the group he is like manna
from heaven, and others, he is like a leper

My son is fencing with a college club, and after his first few practices, He
became very tired of hearing" We don't do it that way here" " We don't end
matches on double touches" "we don't do drills or footwork, we just fence"
Well after hearing that and his matches have been less than stellar- 5-0,
5-0, 5,1 and so on- his favor-
Their coach doesn't really coach-
The recent new comer night a man walked in and he also had FIE equipment,
they gravitated to each other- he is a DIV 1 foil fencer, ( He also has a
coaching license) that will be at the school until the end of October- They
agreed that maybe it is time to take charge and rhetorically beat them into
submission, not let them score a point and maybe then they will begin to
listen. Some of the newer people seem to be moving over and watching their
matches and asking how did you do that and they have been very willing to
share-
any suggestions he would appreciate

In rec.sport.fencing on Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:27:58 -0500
C-Sports <csports@epconline.com> wrote:
> agreed that maybe it is time to take charge and rhetorically beat them into
> submission, not let them score a point and maybe then they will begin to
> listen. Some of the newer people seem to be moving over and watching their
> matches and asking how did you do that and they have been very willing to
> share-

That's what I did a long time ago

Just fenced well, and if anyone showed interest, spent a lot of time
with them, explaining and saying "would you like to practice that?" The
then "coach" didn't like it much. And some of the bods there who didn't
want to work didn't either, but others did.

He and the other should do their own footwork practice religiously, and
if asked why say why it's important. Maybe ask some of the ones who
show interest to help with the drills, "Would you might being my fencing
dummy for a bit, and then I'll be yours?" If it's like most clubs
there's a lot of standing around, and doing something is better than
standing around so he should get takers.

ALso, it's quite likely that there's a couple of bods there who are
winning lots by tricks. They have a killer move or two, and the others
don't know what to do. Determine the move, then talk about how you see
it and what the counter is. If anyone asks, teach it to them and drill
them in it. If the killer move stops working, you'll get attention!

If he and the other guy are having fun even if they are working hard,
and most importantly someone they train is clearly improving, then
others will gravitate quicksmart.

Not all will, training is hard work and it can be hard for an individual
to see a difference, so some will not want to get involved, but you only
need one or two to start with.

Zebee

On 15 Sep 2003 19:22:40 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <zebee@zip.com.au> wrote
(more or less):

>In rec.sport.fencing on Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:27:58 -0500
>C-Sports <csports@epconline.com> wrote:
>> agreed that maybe it is time to take charge and rhetorically beat them into
>> submission, not let them score a point and maybe then they will begin to
>> listen. Some of the newer people seem to be moving over and watching their
>> matches and asking how did you do that and they have been very willing to
>> share-
>
>That's what I did a long time ago
>
>Just fenced well, and if anyone showed interest, spent a lot of time
>with them, explaining and saying "would you like to practice that?" The
>then "coach" didn't like it much. And some of the bods there who didn't
>want to work didn't either, but others did.
>
>He and the other should do their own footwork practice religiously, and
>if asked why say why it's important.

I heartily agree with this last bit.

The bits of practive that are missing from this club are warm-ups,
reflex trainig, footwork and group lessons. they're already doing the
fencing.

Or more probably , 'fencing', given the lack of training & practice
they're doing, and the 5-0/5-1 scores your lad is getting.

Get him to turn up, go through a warm-up and stretches regime, then
footwork practice.

Then a bladework practice with his new peer.

/Then/ go on to fencing.

REmember the folk who want to fence well but currently can't will do
as they are taught - and they can be taught by example as much as by
being explicitly told.

So if they see the winner of all bouts doing these practices, they'll
start to join in.

Once the initial group who join in improve and start to leave the rest
of the club behind in fight results, the rest of the club'll join in
to.

Mind you, I expect it'll be the early part of next semester by the
time it's standard club practice.


Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

"C-Sports" <csports@epconline.com> nattered on
thusnews:9KucnU9E3MeVmPuiXTWJjQ@accessus.net:

> The recent new comer night a man walked in and he also had FIE
> equipment, they gravitated to each other- he is a DIV 1 foil fencer, (
> He also has a coaching license) that will be at the school until the
> end of October- They agreed that maybe it is time to take charge and
> rhetorically beat them into submission, not let them score a point and

I hope he does. I may not agree with the theory behind the FIE style, but
it's still a discipline and deserves respect from its practitioners. I
wonder how well those "we just fence" folks do in larger tournaments.

In rec.sport.fencing on Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:27:58 -0500
C-Sports <csports@epconline.com> wrote:
> agreed that maybe it is time to take charge and rhetorically beat them into
> submission, not let them score a point and maybe then they will begin to
> listen. Some of the newer people seem to be moving over and watching their
> matches and asking how did you do that and they have been very willing to
> share-

That's what I did a long time ago

Just fenced well, and if anyone showed interest, spent a lot of time
with them, explaining and saying "would you like to practice that?" The
then "coach" didn't like it much. And some of the bods there who didn't
want to work didn't either, but others did.

He and the other should do their own footwork practice religiously, and
if asked why say why it's important. Maybe ask some of the ones who
show interest to help with the drills, "Would you might being my fencing
dummy for a bit, and then I'll be yours?" If it's like most clubs
there's a lot of standing around, and doing something is better than
standing around so he should get takers.

ALso, it's quite likely that there's a couple of bods there who are
winning lots by tricks. They have a killer move or two, and the others
don't know what to do. Determine the move, then talk about how you see
it and what the counter is. If anyone asks, teach it to them and drill
them in it. If the killer move stops working, you'll get attention!

If he and the other guy are having fun even if they are working hard,
and most importantly someone they train is clearly improving, then
others will gravitate quicksmart.

Not all will, training is hard work and it can be hard for an individual
to see a difference, so some will not want to get involved, but you only
need one or two to start with.

Zebee

On 15 Sep 2003 19:22:40 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <zebee@zip.com.au> wrote
(more or less):

>In rec.sport.fencing on Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:27:58 -0500
>C-Sports <csports@epconline.com> wrote:
>> agreed that maybe it is time to take charge and rhetorically beat them into
>> submission, not let them score a point and maybe then they will begin to
>> listen. Some of the newer people seem to be moving over and watching their
>> matches and asking how did you do that and they have been very willing to
>> share-
>
>That's what I did a long time ago
>
>Just fenced well, and if anyone showed interest, spent a lot of time
>with them, explaining and saying "would you like to practice that?" The
>then "coach" didn't like it much. And some of the bods there who didn't
>want to work didn't either, but others did.
>
>He and the other should do their own footwork practice religiously, and
>if asked why say why it's important.

I heartily agree with this last bit.

The bits of practive that are missing from this club are warm-ups,
reflex trainig, footwork and group lessons. they're already doing the
fencing.

Or more probably , 'fencing', given the lack of training & practice
they're doing, and the 5-0/5-1 scores your lad is getting.

Get him to turn up, go through a warm-up and stretches regime, then
footwork practice.

Then a bladework practice with his new peer.

/Then/ go on to fencing.

REmember the folk who want to fence well but currently can't will do
as they are taught - and they can be taught by example as much as by
being explicitly told.

So if they see the winner of all bouts doing these practices, they'll
start to join in.

Once the initial group who join in improve and start to leave the rest
of the club behind in fight results, the rest of the club'll join in
to.

Mind you, I expect it'll be the early part of next semester by the
time it's standard club practice.


Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

"C-Sports" <csports@epconline.com> nattered on
thusnews:9KucnU9E3MeVmPuiXTWJjQ@accessus.net:

> The recent new comer night a man walked in and he also had FIE
> equipment, they gravitated to each other- he is a DIV 1 foil fencer, (
> He also has a coaching license) that will be at the school until the
> end of October- They agreed that maybe it is time to take charge and
> rhetorically beat them into submission, not let them score a point and

I hope he does. I may not agree with the theory behind the FIE style, but
it's still a discipline and deserves respect from its practitioners. I
wonder how well those "we just fence" folks do in larger tournaments.