Cadet Saber World Cup in Konin Poland

[Mo]

The first Cadet Saber World Cup will be held September 20 and 22 in Konin Poland.
Good luck to the US kids going!
Fence Well!!

[rory]

Cadet World Cup?

You don't get Cadet World Cups - only Junior, and Senior ones. Cadets and Veterans get World Championships (and Pan-American Games and Commonwealth Games), but WCs are Junior and Senior only.

There are internationaly Cadet tournaments - Pisa, Budapest, a new one in Bolton (England), some others - but they're not FIE regulated or approved.

[Mo]

Originally posted by rory
Cadet World Cup?

You don't get Cadet World Cups - only Junior, and Senior ones. Cadets and Veterans get World Championships (and Pan-American Games and Commonwealth Games), but WCs are Junior and Senior only.

There are internationaly Cadet tournaments - Pisa, Budapest, a new one in Bolton (England), some others - but they're not FIE regulated or approved.

Rory,
On the schedule I have printed out for my kids, it is called "Cadet World Cup B Konin Poland".
There is another Cadet World Cup B in Budapest. They are both "designated meets" by the USFA.
Maybe before I post again I should send you the email and see if your holiness, Approver of what a meet is called, can approve of the title of the dam*** post.
To the kids going to the competition it is a World CUP!
Bite me.

[veeco]

Mo, with all due respect, this is not a world cup, and rory is right.

World Cups exist only starting at the Junior level. If your kids, yourself or the kids going there want to call it a world cup, that's fine, but the difference is important in that world cups give you points and those points are used at the end of the season to declare the "World Cup winner" at the end of the season. There is no such thing in Cadets and below.

These are definitely strong international tournaments, and the USFA has chosen to use them to select the US Cadet team that will compete in the cadet world championships, but some other countries may have another selection method, and may have designated other national competitions to do so.

The FIE usually refers to these events as "Cadet World Championship Selection Events"

[Inquartata]

Are there any rules on the naming of tournaments? Any sanctions available to the FIE or the USFA if my local salle decided to advertise one of our local tournaments as a World Cup or something? Has the issue ever come up?

[veeco]

Probably not, but there are rules for hosting world cups which are published on the FIE website.

[Inquartata]

Well, maybe we'll call it an American Cup B or something, then.

( Just kidding. But you'd think it might bring in a few entries, at least the first time to tried it! )

[Mo]

The reason I got bent at Rory is because, this is the first event in Europe for so many kids.
It is listed as a World Cup on the schedule not a world championship. Usually a championship is a once yearly thing where they winner is declared the Champion for that year.
That event is in April for Cadets and Junior in Bulgaria of all places. The Summer National Championships are the finale for a lot of age groups and the first event for others. If you win you are the National Champion. Then there are NAC or North American Cups!
The Schedule lists them as B World Cups for Cadet.
The point I was trying to make is, if you have a kid going to this event, fence well and good luck.
FENCE WELL AND GOOD LUCK!!!
That is it. Was it necessary to tell me I am wrong in what I read off the paper I had in front of me?? All I was doing was wishing good wishes to the MANY Kids that are going!!
Rory's post was nit picking at it's finest.
I still wish the fencers going and their parents a safe journey and a good experience for the kids.
Who else has done that?
That is why I am annoyed.
Sometimes the need to be nice should override the need to correct.

[veeco]

Mo, the reason why those fencing boards are great is because there are so many of those hair splitters on them. You learn something new everyday just reading posts here ;-).

I am sure Bulgaria is a very nice place. I have never been there myself, but Sofia has a lot of very nice places to visit and is a beautiful city.

Just to add something one more thing on this issue, there used to be events called 'B world cups' at one point by the FIE. I don't really know how they worked or if they had them for cadet fencers, but I guess that the reason why the USFA paper had this terminology on it. They stuck with the old name, thinking that it was better looking and shorter than "Cadet World Championship Selection Event"

No hard feelings?

[veeco]

Originally posted by Inquartata
Well, maybe we'll call it an American Cup B or something, then.

( Just kidding. But you'd think it might bring in a few entries, at least the first time to tried it! )

I'd probably rather call it an American B Cup, if you want to attract a few more entries...

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Like Mo, I also have a kid going to the Poland Cadet World Cup "B" Which May or May Not Be an Actual World Cup Event (henceforth named the PCWCBWMMNBAWCE).

My correspondence for the PCWCBWMMNBAWCE from the USFA, also had the PCWCBWMMNBAWCE listed as a "Cadet World Cup "B"". Everyone at the club refers to it as a World Cup. The pix of the T-shirt the participants are getting says World Cup, not PCWCBWMMNBAWCE. Each kid is required to have an FIE license to participate.

Hence, I posit, the misunderstanding. For all practical purposes for our Cadet fencers, it might as well be, even if it is a PCWCBWMMNBAWCE. Any points will be of value, come Cadet team selection time. April in Plovdiv...how romantic!

Anyway, my best wishes as well to the large contingent of American hopefuls at the PCWCBWMMNBAWCE!

[Mo]

Originally posted by veeco
They stuck with the old name, thinking that it was better looking and shorter than "Cadet World Championship Selection Event"

No hard feelings?

Nope, no hard feelings.
I guess the people that organized the event and sanctioned it are all wrong.
There are two sanctioned cadet events. This one and the one in Budapest. Only one counts. The points from Junior and Senior World Cups (can I say it now?) also count.
It is all part of the USFA Selection process for the Cadet World Team.

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by veeco
I'd probably rather call it an American B Cup, if you want to attract a few more entries...

My luck continues to hold: I wasn't drinking anything when I read that! Keyboard and monitor thus remained dry...

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by Mo
Sometimes the need to be nice should override the need to correct.

You've heard the saying "No good deed goes unpunished"?

[vigia]

Exactly what schedule are you referring to? I don't see any such listing on the USFA web site, nor on the FIE web site when I search under Cadet. All that comes up on the USFA web site are the Junior events, and all that comes up under Cadet on the FIE web site are the Pan-American and World Junior/Cadet championships.

[afc fencer]

Exactly what schedule are you referring to? I don't see any such listing on the USFA web site, nor on the FIE web site when I search under Cadet. All that comes up on the USFA web site are the Junior events, and all that comes up under Cadet on the FIE web site are the Pan-American and World Junior/Cadet championships.

The cadet saber fencers who were in the top 16 got an email telling them about poland. The Junior saber fencers on the point standings also got an email that told wich world cups were designated. This email had a schedule that listed Konin as a cadet world cup.

[swordsen]

Just because there has not been a "Cadet World Cup" doesn't mean there isn't one now........

[rory]

Just because there has not been a "Cadet World Cup" doesn't mean there isn't one now........

No, but the fact that it's not on the FIE site means there isn't!

[vigia]

Originally posted by afc fencer
The cadet saber fencers who were in the top 16 got an email ...

Why would this be in an email for these fencers only, instead of posted on the web site? Not a very transparent process, I would say. Of course, I understand that only the top 16 are invited, but to not inform the rest of the field that this even exists seems disingenious. Especially as it is a points generating set of events. The message they are sending then is "we aren't even going to even *tell* you how the top 16 are going about getting their points." It would feel far less like a secret club if they just posted this stuff -- here are the tournaments, and here is how to get invited (get in the top 16). Yes, some of this is in the handbook, but it hasn't been updated for 2003/2004 yet as far as I can tell.

[rory]

I have to agree with Vigia on this - because there's no selection requirement for this competition!

This event, the one in Budapest, Pisa etc are all open - the only restriction is in the age of the competitors, as you'd expect for a Cadet tournament. Anyone who's got the money and time can fly over and fence.

Several of my friends (I'm in the UK) have been over to these Cadet tournaments and placed highly - one girl I know came third in the Pisa cadet foil, if I recollect correctly.

It just seems a little odd to me that the USFA isn't promoting these events more widely.