Cold Steel Up the Arm

My 12 year old dauther was fencing sabre against her 14 year brother
and her sabre blade enter though the hole in the glove and went all
the way up the arm without leaving a mark.

Tim Loomis
www.yeoldearmourer.com

A few years ago we had a fencer's broken blade go through the hole in
the glove closure and through the palm of his hand. Luckily, we had 2
EMTs in the competition. I don't think anybody in our division uses
the Allstar glove anymore.



Tim Loomis wrote:

> My 12 year old dauther was fencing sabre against her 14 year brother
> and her sabre blade enter though the hole in the glove and went all
> the way up the arm without leaving a mark.
>
> Tim Loomis
> www.yeoldearmourer.com

That happened to us a couple months ago, using foils. We weren't sure how
to call that. The two combatants just stood dumbfounded: one couldn't move
his foil, and the other couldn't move her arm. Heh heh...


"Tim Loomis" <yeoldearmourer@msn.com> wrote in message
news:f104bd22.0309050547.b05d3a@posting.google.com ...
> My 12 year old dauther was fencing sabre against her 14 year brother
> and her sabre blade enter though the hole in the glove and went all
> the way up the arm without leaving a mark.
>
> Tim Loomis
> www.yeoldearmourer.com

"skunks" <skunks@insightbb.com> nattered on
thusnews:yTv6b.376411$YN5.252396@sccrnsc01:

> That happened to us a couple months ago, using foils. We weren't sure
> how to call that. The two combatants just stood dumbfounded: one
> couldn't move his foil, and the other couldn't move her arm. Heh

Foil? Off-target, obviously.

"Bryan J. Maloney" <cavaggione@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> wrote in message
news:Xns93EED9ACE525Fdogfaceinsightbbcom@206.141.1 93.32...
>
> > That happened to us a couple months ago, using foils. We weren't sure
> > how to call that. The two combatants just stood dumbfounded: one
> > couldn't move his foil, and the other couldn't move her arm. Heh
>
> Foil? Off-target, obviously.

There was no hit; just a stop in action, a state of confusion, and one
hidden weapon.

"skunks" <skunks@insightbb.com> nattered on
thusnews:3ba7b.399457$uu5.73722@sccrnsc04:

>
> "Bryan J. Maloney" <cavaggione@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> wrote in message
> news:Xns93EED9ACE525Fdogfaceinsightbbcom@206.141.1 93.32...
>>
>> > That happened to us a couple months ago, using foils. We weren't
sure
>> > how to call that. The two combatants just stood dumbfounded: one
>> > couldn't move his foil, and the other couldn't move her arm. Heh
>>
>> Foil? Off-target, obviously.
>
> There was no hit; just a stop in action, a state of confusion, and one
> hidden weapon.

Ah, then it's "No touch, phrase ends."

"Bryan J. Maloney" <cavaggione@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> nattered on
thusnews:Xns93F0D8A5E4E7Bdogfaceinsightbbcom@206.1 41.193.32:

> "skunks" <skunks@insightbb.com> nattered on
> thusnews:3ba7b.399457$uu5.73722@sccrnsc04:
>
>>
>> "Bryan J. Maloney" <cavaggione@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> wrote in message
>> news:Xns93EED9ACE525Fdogfaceinsightbbcom@206.141.1 93.32...
>>>
>>> > That happened to us a couple months ago, using foils. We weren't
> sure
>>> > how to call that. The two combatants just stood dumbfounded: one
>>> > couldn't move his foil, and the other couldn't move her arm. Heh
>>>
>>> Foil? Off-target, obviously.
>>
>> There was no hit; just a stop in action, a state of confusion, and one
>> hidden weapon.
>
> Ah, then it's "No touch, phrase ends."
>

Actually, the full call:

Attack from the <left>, parry fails, no touch, phrase ends.

In article <3ba7b.399457$uu5.73722@sccrnsc04>,
"skunks" <skunks@insightbb.com> wrote:

> "Bryan J. Maloney" <cavaggione@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> wrote in message
> news:Xns93EED9ACE525Fdogfaceinsightbbcom@206.141.1 93.32...
> >
> > > That happened to us a couple months ago, using foils. We weren't sure
> > > how to call that. The two combatants just stood dumbfounded: one
> > > couldn't move his foil, and the other couldn't move her arm. Heh
> >
> > Foil? Off-target, obviously.
>
> There was no hit; just a stop in action, a state of confusion, and one
> hidden weapon.


Aaahh, the old "hidden weapon" trick.

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 6:47:52 -0700, Tim Loomis wrote
(in message <f104bd22.0309050547.b05d3a@posting.google.com>) :

> My 12 year old dauther was fencing sabre against her 14 year brother
> and her sabre blade enter though the hole in the glove and went all
> the way up the arm without leaving a mark.

Ah! The mystery of the Vanishing Point...

-glp


--
Arbitrary text placed here, to prevent my silly news software from
believing I am including only quoted text, and naught else...

In article <f104bd22.0309050547.b05d3a@posting.google.com>,
yeoldearmourer@msn.com (Tim Loomis) writes:

>Subject: Cold Steel Up the Arm
>From: yeoldearmourer@msn.com (Tim Loomis)
>Date: 5 Sep 2003 06:47:52 -0700
>
>My 12 year old dauther was fencing sabre against her 14 year brother
>and her sabre blade enter though the hole in the glove and went all
>the way up the arm without leaving a mark.
>
>Tim Loomis
>www.yeoldearmourer.com

Well, you get that sometimes...

You can coount yourself lllucky (I know I do!), but that's an object lesson is
the reason that every club, and tournament really SHOULD have (or at least TRY
to have) a first aid kit onsite, as well asa phone; with numbers posted if your
not in a 911 capable area, (cell' phones are common, but you can't, quite yet,
count one someone having one) AND someone (or MORE than one) person ppresent
who has had training in first aid and procedures pertaining to bloodborne
pathogens, as well as CPR, etc.

Generally speaking, I think history has shown fencing to be quite safe, but,
though few, and far between (fortunately), there ARE occaisions where these
sorts of things are necessary.

We should hope for the best, but plan for the worst: to borrow a slogan: Be
Prepared!


have fun!

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 18:57:34 GMT, dixit Carol
<ca.donohue@verizon.net>:

>I don't think anybody in our division uses the Allstar glove anymore.

Which one in particular?

--
wreckferret ICQ#163264
UK-based Epéeist/Sabreur Make spammers pay... use CruelMail!

Their 3-weapon glove - the fencer was wearing an overglove at the time
-- this was before the sabre limits on hand target rule change, before
the creation of special electric sabre gloves. Allstar's design doesn't
provide for a full overlapping closure at the wrist/base of palm like all
other gloves, but rather, it leaves a very small opening. After this
accident happened, we noticed this opening (which explained how this
could happen), and then we looked at everyone's gloves and noticed that
no other glove had this opening, and sent an e-mail to Allstar.

How the accident happened was that Fencer A attacked, Fencer B took the
head parry, which broke fencer A's blade; Fencer A continued forward
movement, and lodged his broken blade through this opening into Fencer
B's base of his palm. A very freaky accident to happen -- it is only a
very small opening; it would never be an issue in the other weapons,
however, in sabre when taking a head parry, this part is exposed.

From looking at the current pictures of their gloves on the Allstar-USA
website, the 3-weapon glove still has this opening; the dry sabre glove
has this corrected; and the electric sabre glove has this opening.

I know that one club in the Division (a primarily sabre-only club) does
not permit their members to fence with the Allstar glove (I think that
they also had another member that also had an accident like this, except
that there was not blade penetration).

wreckferret wrote:

> On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 18:57:34 GMT, dixit Carol
> <ca.donohue@verizon.net>:
>
> >I don't think anybody in our division uses the Allstar glove anymore.
>
> Which one in particular?
>
> --
> wreckferret ICQ#163264
> UK-based Epéeist/Sabreur Make spammers pay... use CruelMail!

A few years ago, I was hit in the hand by a saber (new blade), which punched
through the leather between little and ring finger and slid halfway down the
back of my hand underneath the skin, resulting in a puncture wound c. 4 inches
deep.

I could actually use my hand to squirt the subcutaneously collecting blood,
like the wiley horny toad. Fun while it lasted.

It was a 3-weapon Allstar glove (battered to death, I concede). Teaches you to
keep your guard pointing forward...

(The culprit was my brother in law... which resulted in my wife calling her
mother with the memorable words "Geoff stabbed Chris!" Good times at the
trailer park...)

Despite that, I've had more epee blades run up inside my sleeve through the
cable hole in the glove than Saber blades.

Chris Amberger

And was this a sport fencing weapon or some other variant of saber? And if
a sport fencing weapon why wasn't the foil capable of stopping penetration?

J.

J. Christoph Amberger wrote:
> A few years ago, I was hit in the hand by a saber (new blade), which punched
> through the leather between little and ring finger and slid halfway down the
> back of my hand underneath the skin, resulting in a puncture wound c. 4 inches
> deep.
>
> I could actually use my hand to squirt the subcutaneously collecting blood,
> like the wiley horny toad. Fun while it lasted.
>
> It was a 3-weapon Allstar glove (battered to death, I concede). Teaches you to
> keep your guard pointing forward...
>
> (The culprit was my brother in law... which resulted in my wife calling her
> mother with the memorable words "Geoff stabbed Chris!" Good times at the
> trailer park...)
>
> Despite that, I've had more epee blades run up inside my sleeve through the
> cable hole in the glove than Saber blades.
>
> Chris Amberger
>

It was a plain, run-of-the-mill steam sports saber, a pair of plain
run-of-the-mill sports-saber, and a plain, run-of-the-mill fencing glove.

Chris

Oh yeah? That's what *zoergiebel@aol.com* says...
> Despite that, I've had more epee blades run up inside my sleeve through the
> cable hole in the glove than Saber blades.

I have a hole in my jacket, but not in my arm, from this...

--

Keep talking. I could do with a few less brain cells.

On 17 Sep 2003 18:31:44 GMT, zoergiebel@aol.com (J. Christoph
Amberger) wrote:

>A few years ago, I was hit in the hand by a saber (new blade), which punched
>through the leather between little and ring finger and slid halfway down the
>back of my hand underneath the skin, resulting in a puncture wound c. 4 inches
>deep.

Just out of curiosity, was the blade broken or not?

-Chris Zakes
Texas

We put the "fun" in dysfunctional.

>Just out of curiosity, was the blade broken or not?

That's the thing. It wasn't. It was brand new, edges unrounded by opposing
parries, and stiff.

Why was my hand open, you ask? I blame it on having just broken my own saber,
and fencing with a club weapon equipped with the cheapest East bloc-made blade
on the market (that was in the late 80s, BTW...) The blade behaved like cast
iron, or better: lead, bending into various obtuse shapes after every action
which made me compendate with the guard...

Chris

A few years ago we had a fencer's broken blade go through the hole in
the glove closure and through the palm of his hand. Luckily, we had 2
EMTs in the competition. I don't think anybody in our division uses
the Allstar glove anymore.



Tim Loomis wrote:

> My 12 year old dauther was fencing sabre against her 14 year brother
> and her sabre blade enter though the hole in the glove and went all
> the way up the arm without leaving a mark.
>
> Tim Loomis
> www.yeoldearmourer.com

On 17 Sep 2003 18:31:44 GMT, zoergiebel@aol.com (J. Christoph
Amberger) wrote:

>A few years ago, I was hit in the hand by a saber (new blade), which punched
>through the leather between little and ring finger and slid halfway down the
>back of my hand underneath the skin, resulting in a puncture wound c. 4 inches
>deep.

Just out of curiosity, was the blade broken or not?

-Chris Zakes
Texas

We put the "fun" in dysfunctional.