Appel-lunge and Cross lunge

[Mark]

Would you mind telling me the meanings of Appel-lunge and Cross-lunge? How to perform these actions?

Thanks.

[schlager7]

Not familiar with the first by name, but I presume you make an appel (slap your lead foot soundly on the floor... to produce a response in you opponant) and lunge. Do students in your salle execute a "deux-appel" at the end of the lesson. (If you don't, do not wonder over it... I'm old...)

The second is a passe-avance or cross-forward that leads directly into a lunge. It can gain quite a bit of distance within a short space of time.

[wflaschka]

Hi Mark! Welcome to fencing101...

The appel lunge is a lunge preceded by an appel. The appel is a tap with the front foot. It's used for tempo and also to convey misinformation to the opponent. The foot-tap makes a sound, which the opponent can misconstrue as an advance or an attack, which will throw off their distance or activate their defenses early respectively. It's possible to stop an opponent's multi-part attack with one well-placed appel. If you use them a lot in one phrase, the noise can jam a marching attack and slowly break it apart, sabre style.

The cross-lunge is a lunge where the back foot comes in front of the front foot, and the front foot becomes the back foot. It's like a long cross-over. The front shoulder stays in front. Not extremely useful (most of the google hits for "cross lunge" are for dance steps), because there's no real escape strategy when it fails. It's not called a "reverse lunge" because the reverse lunge is already a backwards lunge (aka a kind of esquive).

[Mark]

Thank you very much to both of you for your detailed explanation.

[CarlKnoch]

A cross lunge sounds like it would be next to useless. No real distance on your lunge, and nowhere to go when you're done, and you run the risk of turning your shoulders and getting carded if you do it quickly.

[Craig]

Originally posted by CarlKnoch
A cross lunge sounds like it would be next to useless. No real distance on your lunge, and nowhere to go when you're done, and you run the risk of turning your shoulders and getting carded if you do it quickly.

With practice, you can work it into a footwork sequence nicely.

Do a short cross lunge, follow up with a standard lunge. The cross lunge allows you a better "feint" and then you gain extra distance to power in your lunge.

That's one example. Even if it becomes a useless move for your style and your fencing, it's important to know all of the footwork movements so that you have all of the building blocks availble to you.

Cheers,
Craig

[Mark]

Thanks.

[pkt]

Mark,

You didn't specify which weapon you fence.

What schlager and wflaschka described are foil appel. i.e. a tap of the front foot while your body weight is on your back ffot.

On the other hand, in a sabre appeal you stomp your front foot with your body weight shifted onto your front foot ready to flunge or balestre-lunge off the front foot.

This is the definition from
Martini A~Z of Fencing, by E.D. Morton
[soon I'll have the whole book typed onto this site.]

Appel.
The striking of the ground with the leading foot, during, or immediately before, the execution of an atack. That this should in any way unsettle or discompose the opponent seems a fond hope, [I like that! - PK] but it had the two great advantages of ensuring that the weight is not thrown on the front foot too early and that the extension of the sword-arm is fully completed before the front leg is advanced in the lunge. (A double stamp of the foot is a double appel.)

According to Egerton Castle, the appel was in 19th century England termed an attack, presumably because it almost invariably accompanied an offensive action. A highly characteristic action of the Italian school (antique and modern), it was often accompanied by a loud shout.

- -

Ob-pa.

Hope that helps.

PK

[OCTAVIA]

Mark! I'm sorry,I'll change my Avatar asap, I didnt' see it.

Both moves are great, the cross-over lunge is a bit easier; using the same foot to go from a quick tap into the lunge is more difficult.

[Artisan]

Originally posted by Craig

Do a short cross lunge, follow up with a standard lunge. The cross lunge allows you a better "feint" and then you gain extra distance to power in your lunge.

Cheers,
Craig

Having read the posts, I realize that (at epee) I sometimes do what could be construed as a cross lunge - or I would call it a mini-fleche. It allows me to go right at them from outside distance, but stop without passing (usually not a good idea)
BTW: no one has taught this to me, but I do score with it sometimes. It usually ends with a little "jostle" since the reff sees no attempt to avoid. Only got a yellow once though

[Mark]

Thanks to all of you indeed.

[vegan]

Carl,
Cross lunge is usefull at the end of a running attack (which craig used to do real nice if i remember!) or to supprise someone, the trick is trying not to turn the torso and get a card. I use it sometimes to finish a attack from mid distance, when I can predict the oppoents reaction (as in make sure I am not parried), but it is sort of a move that is tough to get out of.
Cheers,
B.

[Craig]

Originally posted by vegan
Carl,
Cross lunge is usefull at the end of a running attack (which craig used to do real nice if i remember!) or to supprise someone, the trick is trying not to turn the torso and get a card. I use it sometimes to finish a attack from mid distance, when I can predict the oppoents reaction (as in make sure I am not parried), but it is sort of a move that is tough to get out of.
Cheers,
B.

OK - Who are you?

[CarlKnoch]

So if you are marching and end a run with a cross lunge attack, what's the likelyhood that the referee is going to call you for preparation instead of for the attack?

I could see setting someone up with a cross lunge that you know will be short, followed by a lunge that is longer because of the crossed feet though. On that move do you also find that you get called for prep Craig? Or is it too obvious that it's the attack?

[Craig]

When I was in prep and got hit in prep, it was a one light for my opponent.

In general, it was set up so that either the other fencer was backpedaling and flailing their blade around or I cleared their blade out with a beat attack.

That said, it's more of a late-80's attack than what will be successful today. The top level today is much better at tempo hits with close out and beats into preparation. (Think of a parry-riposte but in counter attack tempo.)

Craig

[vegan]

Carl,
What Craig said- but also keep in mind that you are in Va, and sometimes they call prep too much. that in mind, if the opponent is backing up and flailing the blade around it should be your touch.
Criag,
I went to UNCG- and was terrible back then!!!
Cheers,
B.