[CFML] A word

[deepspeedltd@lineone.net]

Just another point:

Classical is just a word its how you fence that matters.

Classical can mean historical or it can mean standard which might be a reas=
on
why that word is used in 19th and early 20th century manuals.

A swordmans in the 19th Century would be taught a classical stance but it
probally isn't what he would use in a fight but who really knows.

Also a duel is a Game, I am sorry but that statement is poor,
Wars in the 18th century were faught with rules but I don't think men dying
is a game do you, its all very well standing in a hall playing with swords
and I am one of them but to start comparing dueling to what we do now eithe=
r
as organised sport or recreational historical movement is wrong. The time
and place of the duel caused it to have rules just like war ships had to
show the flag of their country or fly a flag to show they will attack but
when the end result is someone dead and many did die in France that is anot=
her
matter, and I am sure that the rules went out the window when it came down
to life and death. How many of us would be practising sword if we had to
duel with it now.

Please don't pretend that we are carrying on that type of tradition we are
more historians than fighters. I remember a rather overweight and slow
40 year old telling me that he could kill any modern fencer in a duel.....O=
k...So
a young 22 year old, training 7 days a week to win Olympic Gold, naturally
competivite is going to get stopped by someone who is out of breath within
the first 2 feet of movement...HE HE HE

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[Linda Wyatt]

deepspeedltd@lineone.net said:

> How many of us would be practising sword if we had to
> duel with it now.

Well, if I had to duel with one, I'd CERTAINLY be practicing! :-)

>
> Please don't pretend that we are carrying on that type of tradition we are
> more historians than fighters.

Speak for yourself, please.

I don't consider what I do to be historical at all. I don't do things in
order to "re-enact" anything, nor do I do things a certain way because some
fencing master hundreds of years ago taught it that way. I do it because it
still works, right now, today, the way it has for those hundreds of years.


> I remember a rather overweight and slow 40 year old telling me that he
> could kill any modern fencer in a duel.....Ok...So
> a young 22 year old, training 7 days a week to win Olympic Gold, naturally
> competivite is going to get stopped by someone who is out of breath within
> the first 2 feet of movement...HE HE HE


You appear to believe that winning a bout has solely to do with being
faster and more athletic.

It doesn't hurt to be fast, or athletic.

But good fencing isn't about that. If it was, then there would be no
stories of older fencing masters easily beating young, athletic students.
You'd never see bouts where the more experienced fencer let his opponent do
all the work, where the younger, more athletic fencer is left panting and
sweating, and the older fencer never breaks a sweat.


Maybe you've never seen that happen. I have.


Linda
www.classicalfencing.com

Now available:
"Classical Fencing: The Martial Art of Incurable Romantics"
by Maitre Adam Adrian Crown
at www.classicalfencing.com/book.shtml



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[Stephen Hand]

> You'd never see bouts where the more experienced fencer let his opponent
do
> all the work, where the younger, more athletic fencer is left panting and
> sweating, and the older fencer never breaks a sweat.

My word. I was training a guy the other day who was 15 years my junior and
many times fitter than me. He kept commenting about how fit I was, because
he was puffing and panting and I wasn't. He also commented on my economy of
motion and seemed genuinely surprised when I pointed out the link between
how puffed we each were and how much energy we were expending.

Best Wishes
Stephen


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[Bob Lyle]

I have faced live steel twice. Thank God neither were experienced knifemen,
instead more scared by my blood than I was, but that was thirty years ago.

Clasical is a word, but a word that describes how you fence. No 19th
Century maitre d'armes used the word "classical", anymore than a Cathedral
builder described himself as a "Gothic Architect." It doesn't matter what
you call yourself, but if you can build a soaring building with flying
buttreses I will call you "gothic."

>A swordmans in the 19th Century would be taught a classical stance but
>it probally isn't what he would use in a fight but who really knows.

What a remarkably arrogant thing to say. Ww know because they were literate
and wrote down what they did. Sometimes they even admitted when they did
something stupid.

Being a classical fencer means we think about the consequences of sharps all
the time, so we are less likely to be rattled if faced by the reality. A
middle-aged fencer has likely seen every trick the twenty-year old knows a
hundred times over, and almost certainly knows some moves that will confuse
the youngster. Wyatt Earp noted that the faster gun seldom one a gunfight,
but the man who was unexcited and deliberate.

And as Stephen said, practice and economy of motion take much of the
exertion out of fencing. It also adds speed, because your blade moves
precisely it has a shorter distance to go. Even with a slower hand your
sword gets where its needed more quickly.

I saw Mr Wieder, 185 cm tall, seventy, and pot-bellied, fight the national
foil champion to a standstill back around 1979. Hee-hee yourself.

Bob Lyle



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[Bob Lyle]

OOps. I am metrically challenged. Russell Wieder was 165 cm tall, not 185
cm.

Bob Lyle



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[Mississippi Academy of Arms]

> From: Bob Lyle [mailto:blyle@sbcglobal.net]<
> No 19th Century maitre d'armes used the word "classical",...<

Except 19th Century French Fencing Master, Louis Rondelle in his 1892
manual: Foil and Sabre, A Grammar of Fencing. Detailed Lessons for
Professor and Pupil. P.189.

"The Classical Fencer. - A classical fencer is supposed to be one who
observes a fine position, whose attacks are fully developed, whose hits
are marvelously accurate, his parries firm and his ripostes executed
with precision. One must not forget that this regularity is not possible
unless the adversary is a party to it. It is then a conventional bout
which consists of parries, attacks, and returns, all rhyming together."

He compared the Classical Fencer to several other fencing styles
including: The Blunderer, The Constitutional Fencer, and the Strategical
Fencer.

Blessings,
Rez Johnson, Md'E
Headmaster
Mississippi Academy of Arms
Teaching Fencing since 1980




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