blades and balance

I was just practicing disengagements, and switched partway through
from a Leon Paul plastic grip foil to a french grip foil. I found the
french grip blade far more responsive for point control, and
eventually realised that the balances were completely different. The
french one was balanced about an inch from the guard, the plastic
orthopaedic about four to five inches out.

So I was wondering - is the 4-5 inches what most people like? I'm only
guessing this is the case because orthopaedic grips always seem to be
made out of lighter materials, and I suppose this is always going to
push the balance further from the guard. Is this a flicking thing? I
can't see how a balance further from the guard helps for point
control. (Not that I've necessarily been fencing long enough to
know...)

Is it possible to find orthopaedic grips made from heavier materials
than plastic and aluminum?

cheers,
Mike

"Mike" <michael.owen@hushmail.com> wrote in message
news:567f0a34.0308251254.3f5359e8@posting.google.c om...
> I was just practicing disengagements, and switched partway through
> from a Leon Paul plastic grip foil to a french grip foil. I found the
> french grip blade far more responsive for point control, and
> eventually realised that the balances were completely different. The
> french one was balanced about an inch from the guard, the plastic
> orthopaedic about four to five inches out.
>
> So I was wondering - is the 4-5 inches what most people like? I'm only
> guessing this is the case because orthopaedic grips always seem to be
> made out of lighter materials, and I suppose this is always going to
> push the balance further from the guard. Is this a flicking thing? I
> can't see how a balance further from the guard helps for point
> control. (Not that I've necessarily been fencing long enough to
> know...)
>
> Is it possible to find orthopaedic grips made from heavier materials
> than plastic and aluminum?
>
> cheers,
> Mike

I use french grips exclusively, I feel I have more control over the blade
with them. I like to have the balance point within a half to one inch in
front of the bell. This is the area that makes the blade feel as if it is a
natural extension of the arm.

For orthopedic or pistol grips, I think aluminum is the heaviest you will
find. One thing I have seen some fencers do, is use small strips of lead on
the back of the pistol grips to bring the balance point back to the bell.

A question and a web-link.

The question is if it's legal to add weight to the end of a pistol grip
to achieve a good balance. I can't recall what the max weight for a
weapons should be.

The web-link, which I found to be very interesting,

http://www.musketeer.org/Garrick/Bla...c_article.html


--
Amy and Joseph Kormann

michael.owen@hushmail.com (Mike) wrote:

> I was just practicing disengagements, and switched partway through
> from a Leon Paul plastic grip foil to a french grip foil. I found the
> french grip blade far more responsive for point control, and
> eventually realised that the balances were completely different. The
> french one was balanced about an inch from the guard, the plastic
> orthopaedic about four to five inches out.
>
> So I was wondering - is the 4-5 inches what most people like?

The real issue here is you swtiched from a short, LIGHT handle to a
long HEAVY handle.

I have never used a plastic grip, and I use ortho/pistol grips
exclusively...and they have always been made of parkerized aluminum.
The balance point is about 2cm forward of the bell.

It has been my experience that the plastic ortho handles simply are
not up to the rigors of competition fencing, and while many prefer
them, they do break/crack with alarming regularity. I know at least
one vendor who won't carry them at all, and another who will call you
up and say "You actually wanted the PLASTIC handle? OK, it's your
money...."

Myself, I don't care for them; but as I say, some people do.

> Is it possible to find orthopaedic grips made from heavier materials
> than plastic and aluminum?

The vast majority of ortho handles are made from aluminum, usually
cast, then polished and dipped. I would like to experiment with
shaping a handled from Delrin, a machineable hard plastic/resin often
used in paintball guns for grips, but that's too expensive a hobby.

Regardless, the maximum weight of a foil is 500g, just like the
pressure required to set off the point. (Ditto epee, it's 750g, same
as to set off the point.)

Cheers,

TC

--

"Mike" <michael.owen@hushmail.com> wrote in message
news:567f0a34.0308251254.3f5359e8@posting.google.c om...
> I was just practicing disengagements, and switched partway through
> from a Leon Paul plastic grip foil to a french grip foil. I found the
> french grip blade far more responsive for point control, and
> eventually realised that the balances were completely different. The
> french one was balanced about an inch from the guard, the plastic
> orthopaedic about four to five inches out.
>
> So I was wondering - is the 4-5 inches what most people like? I'm only
> guessing this is the case because orthopaedic grips always seem to be
> made out of lighter materials, and I suppose this is always going to
> push the balance further from the guard. Is this a flicking thing? I
> can't see how a balance further from the guard helps for point
> control. (Not that I've necessarily been fencing long enough to
> know...)
>
> Is it possible to find orthopaedic grips made from heavier materials
> than plastic and aluminum?
>
> cheers,
> Mike

I use french grips exclusively, I feel I have more control over the blade
with them. I like to have the balance point within a half to one inch in
front of the bell. This is the area that makes the blade feel as if it is a
natural extension of the arm.

For orthopedic or pistol grips, I think aluminum is the heaviest you will
find. One thing I have seen some fencers do, is use small strips of lead on
the back of the pistol grips to bring the balance point back to the bell.

A question and a web-link.

The question is if it's legal to add weight to the end of a pistol grip
to achieve a good balance. I can't recall what the max weight for a
weapons should be.

The web-link, which I found to be very interesting,

http://www.musketeer.org/Garrick/Bla...c_article.html


--
Amy and Joseph Kormann

michael.owen@hushmail.com (Mike) wrote:

> I was just practicing disengagements, and switched partway through
> from a Leon Paul plastic grip foil to a french grip foil. I found the
> french grip blade far more responsive for point control, and
> eventually realised that the balances were completely different. The
> french one was balanced about an inch from the guard, the plastic
> orthopaedic about four to five inches out.
>
> So I was wondering - is the 4-5 inches what most people like?

The real issue here is you swtiched from a short, LIGHT handle to a
long HEAVY handle.

I have never used a plastic grip, and I use ortho/pistol grips
exclusively...and they have always been made of parkerized aluminum.
The balance point is about 2cm forward of the bell.

It has been my experience that the plastic ortho handles simply are
not up to the rigors of competition fencing, and while many prefer
them, they do break/crack with alarming regularity. I know at least
one vendor who won't carry them at all, and another who will call you
up and say "You actually wanted the PLASTIC handle? OK, it's your
money...."

Myself, I don't care for them; but as I say, some people do.

> Is it possible to find orthopaedic grips made from heavier materials
> than plastic and aluminum?

The vast majority of ortho handles are made from aluminum, usually
cast, then polished and dipped. I would like to experiment with
shaping a handled from Delrin, a machineable hard plastic/resin often
used in paintball guns for grips, but that's too expensive a hobby.

Regardless, the maximum weight of a foil is 500g, just like the
pressure required to set off the point. (Ditto epee, it's 750g, same
as to set off the point.)

Cheers,

TC

--