Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

MilkForGanesh · 08-25-2003, 06:02 PM

I've only been fencing (foil) a short while. I started with a French grip, and after six months bought electric gear and decided to choose a particular orthopedic grip.

Leaving behind the valid questions of whether that was long enough in the woodshed with a French grip, or really anything relating to French grips at all...

How would you describe the strengths, weaknesses and general properties of the various orthopedic grips? I played around with a few, and ultimately settled on a Belgian grip, which I like.

But I'm very interested in the perspectives of those more experienced than myself. Thanks for your thoughts!

npkeith · 08-25-2003, 09:35 PM

Having just gone through this myself, I will throw in my 2 cents worth.

Belgian grips have an extra little sticky-out bit (a technical term) that goes between your index and long fingers (if memory serves). This can start to press sideways on your long finger and cause some irritation to the lateral ligament that runs down the side of the finger. They also tend to run long, so that if you have short hands the pommel digs into your wrist when you pronate.

I tried a visconti (which seems the standard), and ended up with a russian. I like the russian because the foregrip - where you hold the weapon between thumb and index finger - is most like a french.

The fencing post has good Uhlmann russians with a kind of pebbled paint finish that grips really well.

Good luck.

downunder · 08-25-2003, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by npkeith

The fencing post has good Uhlmann russians with a kind of pebbled paint finish that grips really well.

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but what if you don't want them insulated.......

great bowyer · 08-26-2003, 07:00 PM

i found that if the end of an orthopedic grip digs into your wrist, then you can just cut this off with a hack saw. not only does this prevent the end from digging into your wrist, it can help speed up some movements for infighting.

MilkForGanesh · 08-27-2003, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by great bowyer
i found that if the end of an orthopedic grip digs into your wrist, then you can just cut this off with a hack saw. not only does this prevent the end from digging into your wrist, it can help speed up some movements for infighting.

I've actually thought about doing that with my Belgian grip, but fear that the extra length exists for a reason (balancing the blade, extra support?)

great bowyer · 08-27-2003, 03:37 PM

I have a bf blade with aluminum guard and medium visconti that i did this to, and it did not notice any major changes with balance or support, but also feels much better without the end digging into your wrist

CarlKnoch · 08-27-2003, 03:43 PM

I know of people who cut the grip down. And if you look at the fencing post they have a picture of a german short and a german long. The short is a long that is cut down. You can plainly tell that it's cut.

With something that weighs around 500g, I can't imagine that cutting off a few grams would adversly effect your control.

npkeith · 08-27-2003, 03:50 PM

My coach did just that with his russian foil grip - did everything he could to lighten the grip - drilled out the handle, ground off metal, shortened the front of the grip to exactly fit his hand.

It significantly changed the balance of the weapon (balance point shifted forward). He is ok with it now (as proved by the whupin' he gave me this past Monday

,) but he had to strengthen his wrist and fingers.

Be careful what you do to your grip. I guess that you might be able to pack some fishing sinkers into the back of the grip to shift the weight back, which would allow you to shorten the grip without messing up the balance. If you want a shorter grip, it might be easier to just switch to a shorter grip.

great bowyer · 08-27-2003, 04:03 PM

i fence epee, and only cut about an inch off. this was just enough to solve the problem with the wrist, but not change the balance any noticable amount.

The0ne · 08-27-2003, 08:56 PM

The grips are varied and after griping almost every design (including the never used american grip) I figured out that Visconti is the best grip ever. 'nuff said.

danp · 08-28-2003, 04:44 PM

Has anyone ever done a custom grip? Something custom fit to an individuals hand...

The reason I ask is that I have access to prototyping and manufacturing tools that would make it possible to create one off molds and create such things out of various materials... Would this be something people would want?

Regards,
-Dan

***Craig*** · 08-28-2003, 05:00 PM

Dan - The top fencers for some European countries have this done.

Craig

Swordmaster · 08-29-2003, 10:36 AM

Sounds interesting. What material are you capable of machining? Would you start with a regular grip or a block of raw material? How would you mold the fencers hand? In what position? Would they be holding a standard grip?

danp · 08-29-2003, 02:00 PM

I'll try my best to answer these -

* What material are you capable of machining?

Most metals and plastics, both machined or injection molded. We have access to an autoclave and pressure fit for carbon manufacturing.

* Would you start with a regular grip or a block of raw material?

I haven't thought about which materials are appropriate yet, but if machined a block would be the way to go. It's much less expensive to purchase a block of material in bulk.

* How would you mold the fencers hand?

I've used an orthopedic plastic in the past for a design project that could be sent out as a kit via mail, then returned for molding. It's a similar process used for doing custom foot orthos, but more complex due to hand positioning. I'm really going to have to play around with this part as it's the key to getting an accurate grip.

* Would they be holding a standard grip?

I'm guessing a customer could squeeze a block of the ortho in their hand in a specific way.. Or perhaps we could have the ortho come pre-cut to be an oversized blank of the users chosen grip - say a visconti for instance. You squeeze and mold the blank until comfortable to suit your needs, let it set, send it in, and then we manufacture and send you a grip...

Costs would vary depending on the material the final product was made of. Carbon, delrin, aluminum alloys of various mixes, even light alloy titanium is possible.

It's just a crazy idea at the moment.. It's something I'd want, so others might as well. It might not even be worth the shop time in the end :-)

All the best,
-Dan

Quote:

Originally posted by Swordmaster
Sounds interesting. What material are you capable of machining? Would you start with a regular grip or a block of raw material? How would you mold the fencers hand? In what position? Would they be holding a standard grip?

DangerMouse · 08-29-2003, 02:44 PM

If not cost prohibitive, I would be one of your first customers. Of course, I would expect it to cost more than a standard grip.

o4aversob · 08-29-2003, 10:35 PM

Are there any restrictions for a custom made grip by the FIE?

danp · 08-31-2003, 12:55 PM

Good question. I'd hate to go through all that trouble for nothing. The FIE web site isn't in English, though it does claim a new site will be up on Monday... perhaps I could send them an email..

-Dan

Quote:

Originally posted by o4aversob
Are there any restrictions for a custom made grip by the FIE?

great bowyer · 09-01-2003, 03:33 AM

From page 102 of the 2002 version of the USFA rule book states that...

m.4
1.The maximum length of the grip in foil and épée is 20 cm, measuredbetween lines B and E, and 18 cm, measured between lines B and D.In saber the maximum length of the grip is 17 cm (see Figures 8, 9and 13, pp. 86, 89, 94).

2.The grip must be able to pass through the same gauge as the guard. Itmust be so made that normally it cannot injure either the user or theopponent.

3.All types of hilts are allowed providing that they conform to the regu-lations which have been framed with a view to placing the varioustypes of weapons on the same footing. However, at épée, orthopae-dic grips, whether metal or not, may not be covered with leather orany material which could hide wires or switches.

4.The grip must not include any device which assists the fencer to useit as a throwing weapon.

5.The grip must not include any device which can increase in any waythe protection afforded to the hand or wrist of the fencer by the guard:a cross bar or electric socket which extends beyond the edge of theguard is expressly forbidden.

6.If the grip (or glove) includes any device or attachment or has a spe-cial shape (orthopaedic) which fixes the position of the hand on thegrip, the grip must conform to the following conditions.
(a)It must determine and fix one position only for the hand on thegrip.
(b)When the hand occupies this one position on the grip, the ex-tremity of the thumb when completely extended must not be morethan 2 cm from the inner surface of the guard.

great bowyer · 09-01-2003, 03:35 AM

other than the rules that i just stated in my last post, i do not believe that there are any other restrictions for a custom grip. hope this helps.

danp · 09-03-2003, 03:29 AM

Excellent, thanks for looking this up!
-Dan

Quote:

Originally posted by great bowyer
other than the rules that i just stated in my last post, i do not believe that there are any other restrictions for a custom grip. hope this helps.