offensive or defensdive

[j4gg3d3dg399]

What have you guys had the best luck with? Always attacking hardly ever using defense or staying back and using entirely defense and hardly ever attacking or a mixture of both attacking and being defensive I mean this post more or less for foilists than epee and sabre.

[veeco]

In both foil and epee, it is usually better to start a bout in defensive more. If you keep scoring touches that way, then you would continue. If that doesn't work, you still have the possibility of going back to offensive mode to make up for the touch differential.

If you were to start all your bouts in offensive mode, when that doesn't work and you've been scored on several times, what are you going to do? Go to defensive mode and wait for your opponent to attack? Well unless you're fencing someone stupid, you will not be able to, because they will let the time run out.

Of course, this would apply for middle to low level fencers. When you're fencing high level fencers, there is no defense and there is no offense. Everything is about sending your opponent the perception that you are in defense while you are in offense and vice versa.

[oiuyt]

Frequently the best strategy is to do whatever one's opponent's strength is. Ie, when fencing a good attacker, attack. When fencing a good defender, defend. Don't let your opponent play the game that s/he is familiar and comfortable with. Force him/her to do what they prefer not to.

-B :)

[D'Artagnan1673]

Nice point,

To j4gg3d3dg399:

Your best bet is to watch everybody in the pool rounds and observe their style, preference and so forth. That way you will have some knowledge of their fencing style before you fence them. It is unwise to say, " I am goin to fence this way." Regardless of who your opponent is.

[Wizardly]

Be formless. Determine your opponent's disposition while having no perceptible form (in this case, a preference for offense or defense). Don't begin with a mindset of offense or defense, try to determine which will be more effective in the present situation. And when a tactic stops working, it's time to spin the tactical wheel (forward or reverse).

I have to disagree with veeco. Dont' start defensive. A strong offensive start can totally unhinge your opponent. Offensive is good so long as it's not reckless. Defensive is good so long as it's not submissive. Defense is just offense by letting the opponent go first, offense is defense by preventing your opponent from going after you.

So before I get too philosophical, I'll just leave you with D'ARt said: watch your opponent. Even if you haven't decided your opponent's disposition, you have up until the second or third step after the "fence!" to decide, so keep an open mind.

[frenzl]

In foil i start a tiny bit more defnsive but then move too a little bit more agressive, yet overall it is neither super agressive or defensive.
On the other hand in Sabre I only do really agressive attacks the best defense for sabre is a good offense!

[j4gg3d3dg399]

I appreciate the help. From everyone. thanks!

[jeff]

Another thought (if you're still taking suggestions) complementary to oiuyt's advise: what he suggests is a great way to neutralize an adversary's strong points. However, it's also good to know what your strengths are, and use them!

If you know you have a good attack and are weak on defense, then use the attack during competition, and work on the defense during practise. (or vice versa as the case applies)

[MikeHarm]

My game mostly is try to push them backwards with my footwork towards their end of the strip, while trying to get my opponents to reach for me. If they reach I try to pick it up and hit them. if they won't reach I keep trying to push them back and harry them while sorting out how to best get around their parry system until they are unwilling or unable to retreat and then launch an offensive action that they won't be able to move out of the way of. I think thats kind of mixing offense and defense.

[veeco]

a.k.a defensive pressure.

It's still a defensive mode, you are not trying to launch an attack on your own, rather benefit from a hurried and poorly constructed attack on their own.

Even though you are being active and pressuring them you are not launching an attack so it's not offense.

[MikeHarm]

So thats what ya call it. Makes sense.. it is kinda heavy on the defense. Is there an inverse to it called offensive pressure? If so how does that go?

[veeco]

I don't know... Offensive pressure seems kind of redundant to me ;-).

I guess the inverse to defensive pressure would be "relaxed attack" or something like that ;-)

More seriously, second intention attacks have a defensive component to them, since you are trying to provoke a specific defensive action and respond to it during your attack.

[D'Artagnan1673]

Observing your opponent as they move through the DE's will help you greatly. I was fortunate to guess who I would fence in the finals when I achieved my coveted E . I was able to observe that he was a defensive epeeist who had a preference for parrying in prime and then infighting with a quick flick to the chest.

I then considered my own preferred style, which is defensive as well. I know that my best moves are parry ripostes and various forms of counterattacks. My opponent and I were equally good fencers, the difference for me was strategy. As Jeff said I did not attack, rather I forced him to attack, meaning I did not allow him to use his strong points while using mine. My first touch came from my pressing him with my point close to his guard. He raised his guard to do a quick flick and my buzzer immediately went off as he walked into my tip. The bout was mostly me playing defensive and paying dearly for any attacks which were not well deceived. Towards the end I had him making numerous parrys of desperation, allowing for easy lunges to the body. Had I fenced more offensively early on, I would have lost.

The bout before was against a better attacker than I was a defender. I was forced to initiate fast attacks with numerous redoublements, as he was unable to defend and counterattack. Once again, I would have, and almost did, lose the bout had I not focused on shifting my style of fencing to ofset my opponents stregnths. That is one of the beauties of fencing. The game is so very mental.

[Craig]

Originally posted by j4gg3d3dg399
What have you guys had the best luck with? Always attacking hardly ever using defense or staying back and using entirely defense and hardly ever attacking or a mixture of both attacking and being defensive I mean this post more or less for foilists than epee and sabre.

For foil there are 2 things that you should do:
1. Maximize touches in which you are strong
2. Minimize your opponent's chances to work their strengths.

Sometimes these are the same, sometimes they are different. Usually, when fencing against a weaker opponent, I focus on my strengths. I'm the better fencer, so playing my game and forcing the actions to be the actions and tactics/flow that I prefer benefits me.

When facing a superior fencer, it is often better to disrupt their game. If you both are fencing to your strengths, then the better fencer will tend to win out. If, however, you can disrupt the better fencer's game and get them outside of their preferred tactics then you will have a competitive advantage (or at least reduced their advantage.)

You'll hear some advanced fencers refer to the "Scrub Factor". That's when the person they fenced reacted so contrary to what they are "suppossed" to do that it makes it a very hard bout. Good fencers often lose to lesser fencers due to the "scrub factor".

Hope that helps,
Craig

[D'Artagnan1673]

Craig said what I was trying to say much better. Get a better fencer out of their rythm and their fencing may fall apart.

[MikeHarm]

Would the marching attacks be considered something that could be used for an offensive pressure game?

Originally posted by veeco
I don't know... Offensive pressure seems kind of redundant to me ;-).

I guess the inverse to defensive pressure would be "relaxed attack" or something like that ;-)

More seriously, second intention attacks have a defensive component to them, since you are trying to provoke a specific defensive action and respond to it during your attack.

[Marcos]

you can't generalise - best thing to do is fence to your strengths, but you need to be able to do both!

Foil:
I find against weaker fencers I go for an all action offensive style to simply blow them away - works, the bout is finished quick, and you don;t concede many points, but takes a lot out of you and I find sometimes I'm huffing and puffing a bit in later rounds.

Against guys I know are stronger, I tend to be more cautious - I also move around the different zones to mix it up a little (as per zonal theory on the "drills" section of the website), and play with the rhythm of the bout more.

Sabre:
attack attack attack!