Subject: Re: [CFML] Finger Loops and Thongs


Thanks, Bob.

We definitely use the fingerschlaffe in schläger and I can understand its
place there, but if foil is truly designed as the training weapon for
smallsword, then the only ones I can see using it would be those who
advocate the "finger through" grip.

My training smallsword has the room to pass through, and it even feels a bit
nice to do it, but because we follow the Blackwell's and the other British
maisters, it is not the recommended way. I have found that Maestro J.A.
Martinez's research on the grip is most likely the grip in use back in the
day.

Therefore, we may be lying to ourselves if we are using finger loops on our
foils. Personally, I am working to make sure there is as much consistency as
possible between my foil and smallsword training and therefore cannot
justify using the finger loop. Also, I can see where the loop could begin to
adulterate the proper use of the index finger as a manipulator. One will
come to rely upon a pulling of the loop during maeuvers.

In the end the only thing we can rely upon to keep the smallsword in hand is
a true grip and proper technique. Short-cuts never work in the long run.

Sincerely,

Michael E. Ludwig
MELudwig@suscom.net
717.244.4630

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Lyle" <blyle@sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'Michael'" <meludwig@suscom.net>
> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 2:41 PM
> Subject: RE: [CFML] Finger Loops and Thongs
>
>
> > The lanyard has a long history in Italian fencing. Since in the Italian
> > style the blade is nearly always aligned with the forarm the pommel is
> close
> > to the wrist, so a lanyard is useful to keep from dropping the sword (It
> can
> > also be used as a "crutch" to keep style, so Master Wieder never let
> > beginners use it). I have heard that it can be used for a more rigid
hold
> > on the sword, but we never used it that way. It is also a disadvantage
in
> > strip fencing. Hold is supposed to be called when a dropped sword hits
> the
> > ground, but if the lanyard keeps the sword from dropping...
> >
> > I do not see how fencing with a classical French style could benefit
from
> a
> > lanyard.
> >
> > I use an Italian foil, epee, and rapier, all with two fingers over the
> > quillon. Smallsword quillons and pas d'ane were often two small to
admit
> > even one finger, and were decorative only. I think it's a French thing.
> >
> > Sir Richard Burton championed the finger loop for foil and saber, but I
> have
> > never been comfortable with it.
> >
> > Bob Lyle
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael [mailto:meludwig@suscom.net]
> > Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 2:58 PM
> > To: classicalfencing@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [CFML] Finger Loops and Thongs
> >
> >
> > GlacierHello Everyone,
> >
> > Does anyone have an opinion concerning the use of finger loops and/or
> thongs
> > with classical foil training?
> >
> > It seems the leather finger loop is making a comeback in classical foil.
I
> > have not seen the thong as often, but it can still be seen in some of
the
> > manuals and I wonder what the thoughts are concerning their use?
> >
> > Are they nebulous aids that create a false security that would not be
> > present with an authentic smallsword? While the finger loop may be
> > representative of the "quillion loop" (?) on earlier smallswords, most
of
> > the treatises warn against passing the index finger through it. This
would
> > eliminate any connection between the finger loop and the smallsword.
> >
> > The thong seems to me to be a carry over from the lanyard used for
> military
> > applications.
> >
> > Any ideas? Theories? References? Personal experiences?
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Michael E. Ludwig
> > MELudwig@suscom.net
> > 717.244.4630
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > The CFML is sponsored in part by Purpleheart Armoury, now carrying
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> > blunts and leather gorgets. http://www.woodenswords.com
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> >
> >
> >
>


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