[CFML] RE: rapiers and small swords

[Alister Oloughlin]

Bob, remember, the French are inherantly a weak race and therefore a
'tooth-pick' like sword is more suited to them.

My rapier weighs about three and a half pounds, my teacher's are around
four, and I can do all the manouvers discussed without problems with all of
these swords - binds and beats as well as cavationes. Also, as Stephen Hand
was saying, it's not beyond ability to make several cavationes in the way
described by Swetnam.

Having said all that, you play to the weapon's strengths, and the rapier is
better at taking out the opposition quickly and efficiently without the need
for foppery.

If the sword is well balanced you can do all these things. And, again as
suggested by Swetnam, often practice is essential - if you practice with the
same sword you'll be fine with it.

Personally I enjoy tripping up small kids with my sword, and why sit down
when you can lean against a hearth and fire-place? Who says the courtsword
is more fashionable? It's a kitchen implement isn't it?

Of course if Milo is reading this I'll be quick to retract most of the
above.

Alister


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[Bob Lyle]

Although two of the earliest smallsword masters, Hope and McBane are Scotts,
not French, and I can argue that Scotland was nowhere near as peaceful and
law-abiding as England or France.

Yes, I can do all those rapier moves too, but I am unlikely to follow a beat
or bind with a thrust (in rapier), a cut is much handier. I can follow any
of those moves with a thrust in smallsword. And more importantly if I have
a smallsword and my opponent a rapier I can recover my line much faster than
he.

Where is Milo? Help!

Bob Lyle



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[Alister Oloughlin]

Dear Jeff and All,


"4 pounds seems awfully heavy for a rapier to me."

Mine weighs three pounds and twelve ounces exactly, on the most accurate
scales I've got (and they're accurate). I think my teacher's swept hilt
rapier is a few ounces more - it's an identical sword but his blade is two
inches longer and the each sweep of the hilt is very slightly larger in
exactly the same proportion to the blade as mine is. (They're both by John
Denbeigh of the Bailiff Forge - whack that in a search engine and you'll
soon find him).

My teacher's other blade is the same with a Pappenheimer hilt, so it tips
four pounds. Again it's a bailiff forge number.

They are drop forged steel blades with hand forged hilts and they're
gorgeous. After making my teacher's pair John swore off doing any more forty
inch blades so mine is just over 38" in length which is too small but
beggars can't be chosers. (Not only are his swords lovely they're very
affordable if you take them fire-blacked rather than polished).

Mr Denbeigh makes beautiful swords and they are immaculately balanced, so
the weight takes a very little time to get used to. The difference in
balance (about an inch further down) on my old Shlaeger has made it
redundant - I never pick it up now, the lack of balance is harder to deal
with despite the vastly reduced weight, and I mean when I'm training alone.)

And obviously shlaegers are not suitable representations of early rapiers in
any way shape or form, so no good for partner training.

Incidently we're now looking to get some thicker and longer bladed early
rapiers made with simpler hilts as we're thinking they may more accurately
reflect our style.

If anyone has any suggestions I'd be grateful.

And, to Steven Hand, what are you using for Saviolo? Would be good to
discuss opinions of what his sword was with you.

All the best

Alister





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[Stephen Hand]

>And, to Steven Hand, what are you using for Saviolo? Would be good to
>discuss opinions of what his sword was with you.
>All the best
>
>Alister

My rapier is an English cup hilt from 1615 with a 41" blade. That's how
long the blades in Saviolo are if the guys are my height. It weighs exactly
three pounds.

Cheers
Steve


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[Bob Lyle]

From: Alister Oloughlin [mailto:almiri@oloklin.fsnet.co.uk]
>Mine weighs three pounds and twelve ounces exactly, on the most accurate
>scales I've got (and they're accurate). I think my teacher's swept hilt
>rapier is a few ounces more - it's an identical sword but his blade is two
>inches longer and the each sweep of the hilt is very slightly larger in
>exactly the same proportion to the blade as mine is.

A 3.75 pound sword is heavy, for any period, except a longsword. The
Elizabethan rapiers inthe Tower of London average about 2.6 lb, with an
average blade length of 42" (the same weight and length as my Darkwood/Del
Tin, and the balance point is also 22% from pommel). The heaviest of these
15 is less than three pounds, and only four had blades less than 40" long.
http://www.musketeer.org/Garrick/Bla...c_article.html
For a wider range of blades (perhaps more beautiful than typical), the
specifications of the rapier-like swords from the Wallace colection are also
on line, and 23 of the 82 weapons listed here weigh over 3 lb, though only
four weigh as much as yours (at least two of which are apparently
broadswords with rapier hilts).
http://www.musketeer.org/rapiers/wallace.htm

Your sword may be gorgeous, but accurate I doubt. Or perhaps accurate of an
unusual type.

Bob Lyle



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