[CFML]Lunges

[Bob Lyle]

From external evidence, George Silver (in Paradoxes of Defence) has Saviolo
resolve a quarrel with another teacher of fence by saying, "me being an
excellent man, me teach you to thrust two feet further than any Englishman,
but first come you with me." Sounds like a lunge to me, especially as the
pass was surely known already in England.

It would be odd if Saviolo did not use the lunge. According to Castle the
classic lunge, complete with left hand thrown back, had been published by
Viggiani twenty-five years before Saviolo's work.

Bob Lyle



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[Zebee Johnstone]

On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 01:34:49PM -0600, Bob Lyle wrote:
>
> It would be odd if Saviolo did not use the lunge. According to Castle the
> classic lunge, complete with left hand thrown back, had been published by
> Viggiani twenty-five years before Saviolo's work.
>

Or even earlier, Agrippa has the lunge and hand thrown
back in his treatise of 1568 compared to Viggiani's 1575.
(http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~wew/fencing/...ppa_illus.html for
page 47)

I've heard the odd facing-back head position in that Agrippa pic as a
way to protect the vulnerable eyes, anyone have another explanation?

If it is an artist's error, then it's a consistent one, see the illos
for pages 63 and 87.

Zebee

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[Alister Oloughlin]

Dear all,

on the lunge subject, there are also pictures of boxers lunging on ancient
greek vases. I think it's probably as old as any martial art isn't it - if
not older. If the body can do it, it's probably a safe assumption that it
was being used somewhere.

I'm not saying it wasn't present in the Elizabethan period, just that from
what we know it wasn't particularly favoured. Until fencing gets linear its
a bit crap really isn't it? - launching yourself straight at your opponent
and ending in a position that it's difficult to retreat from?

True Silver does give us the Bartholomew anecdote - but he's not the most
reliable person to give an unprejudiced account of anything involving an
Italian Maestro is he? And even if it's true, you're making a huge leap to a
conclusion if you think that Saviolo saying he can thrust two foot further
than any Englishman neccessarily means via a lunge. I'm not saying it
doesn't mean that but a lunge is not implicit in that statement.

I should qualify what I was talking about. I think Saviolo certainly teaches
us how to deal with a lunge but the nearest I think he comes to using it is
as a crooked or sloped pace - yeah, it takes the space of two steps so in
those terms is a lunge but, I don't think it's the same move a modern fencer
is talking about - and that's all I was saying. The fact that it's not
straight on ,alone, would mean at least defining it as a sloped or crooked
lunge, and the mechanics are then changed.

But that's just me.

All the best,

Alister


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[Bryan Maloney]

--- In classicalfencing@y..., "Alister Oloughlin" <almiri@o...> wrote:

> I'm not saying it wasn't present in the Elizabethan period, just
that from
> what we know it wasn't particularly favoured. Until fencing gets
linear its
> a bit crap really isn't it? - launching yourself straight at your
opponent
> and ending in a position that it's difficult to retreat from?

Who says that a lunge must be straight at the opponent? A lunge can
delivered obliquely. Indeed, I seem to dimly recall even practicing
oblique lunges from time to time while studying Classical fencing.
(And _traversi_ [if I have remembered the term] can be
bread-and-butter in rapier.)

> as a crooked or sloped pace - yeah, it takes the space of two steps
so in
> those terms is a lunge but, I don't think it's the same move a
modern fencer
> is talking about - and that's all I was saying. The fact that it's

Do you consider Classical fencing to be modern or not?



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