[CFML] Lunges

At 06:36 PM 5/11/02 +0000, you wrote:

> > I can. I'll give you a hint, while lunge is currently a noun in English,
>it
> > comes from the Italian adjective lunga, meaning long. Something cannot be
>a
> > long. It must be a long something. Giganti's lunge (credited by some as
> > being the first properly described lunge) is called the stoccata lunga. If
> > we translate the word lunga into English and correct the word order for
> > that language we get long stoccata. You will find the term long stoccata
> > first mentioned on page 29 verso of Saviolo (under the third
>illustration).
>
>My reading of stoccata lunga seems to describe a passing move, what a
>modern fencer would call a cross, but a dancer still calls a pass :-).

Looking at Giganti's description of the stoccata lunga on page seven of
Teatro, I can't see where this idea comes from. Giganti tells you to
advance the body, bending the right knee as much as possible. I don't see
how this can be done on a pass. His illustration on page six shows a lunge
not entirely dissimilar to the one I was taught in modern fencing. It is
certainly not a pass.

In case you were referring to Saviolo's long stoccata, again I don't see
how the text supports this being a move made on a pass. The only references
to footwork accompanying the long stoccata are on page 29V where Saviolo
states that it "shall bee best performed & reach farthest, if you shift
with your foot on the right side." and on page 30V where he says "If you
minde to deliuer a stoccata like to the before mentioned, you must win
ground with your right foot, toward the right side of your enemie". Moving
towards the opponent with the foot closest to him cannot be a pass.
Certainly the recovery forward from the long stoccata may be made on a
slope pace forward and left (what Saviolo calls a remove in circular wise),
but the initial attack must be a step forward and left, a form of lunge. I
cannot see how the text can be read in any other way.

>A modern lunge isn't a passing move.
>
>So when did the pass disappear from the move?
>
>Plus I find a rapier a bit too heavy to lunge with, you can't (well I
>can't) change direction fast enough.

In the rapier tournament in Racine I did two deceptions of the dagger, a
coupe and a cavatione as I attacked Chris Umbs (fat lot of good it did me
as he hit me simultaneously). Teaching Swetnam, who describes multiple
cavatione's I teach up to four cavatione's on the lunge (I don't commonly
use this many cavatione's but I have a student who does, most beautifully
if I might say so). My rapier weighs almost exactly three pounds. However,
the way a rapier is weighted, changing the direction of the point is a very
fast action, almost as fast as with a modern foil or epee. Lunges were done
with the rapier (they are illustrated in Giganti, Capo Ferro and all later
treatises) and cavationes were described in these attacks.

Cheers
Stephen


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