I think a bunch of interesting points have been brought up on this
topic, and I've been thinking about it over the weekend.
To start off, I'll reiterate my intial statement (which I still feel
strongly about)--even properly executed fencing exposes the
legs to stresses which can eventually cause injuries. I feel that
it's important to protect ones joints from these stresses through
the use of footwear specially designed for the purpose. The
reason that i feel so strongly about these things is that I've been
there. these sort of repetitive stress injuries develop slowly --
sometimes over years -- and when they finally show themselves
by even the mildest discomfort, the damage has allready been
done. You can't "work through" these things most times, you
have to stop what you're doing and give the joint time to heal,
usually 6 months, at least.
There are, of course, a lot of variables involved. The amount of
time you work, correctness of form, intensity, body type & weight
& environmental conditions are all factors.
In some situations, a fencer can execute dangerously poor form
and never be affected, if, for example, he doesn't practice often
and/or doesn't weigh that much, and/or doesn't put in much
effort.
On the other hand, someone can consistently execute perfect
form and still ruin his joints, just because he's exceeded the
capacity of the joint by too many repetitions. Form isn't magic.
In fact, in some disciplines, form can be downright bad for you. I
worked with a hard-style karate blackbelt (don't remember which
style). Part of their tradition--correct technique--involved pounding
the hands on boards & things to improve their punching power.
Over the years, they developed calcium deposites, nerve
damage and arthritis, which was a kind of inside joke amongst
the top guys: "a master's hands are indestinguishable from his
feet." This is a pretty extreme example, but remember form is
designed to work in the moment. Tai Chi is the only martial art I
know of that's practiced more for long-term health goals, and
that's an adaptation of the original, anyway.
When it comes to how best handle these dangers, it's simple
common sense to look at the latest methods & technology. Also,
look at how other martial arts and sports handle these things. I
mean, do you want to settle for rennaisance orthopedics? Plastic
surgery was more advanced at the time. More to the point, history
doesn't record whether Marozzo ended his carreer hobbling
along on two canes. Was Viggiani carried to his salle from his
home in his senior years?
You may have noticed that I haven't said anything about "period
footwear" yet. At the competition that inspired me to post, period
foorware was really "period-looking footwear," since footwear
certainly wasn't consistent for different times & classes. Nobility
at many times was quite fond of high heels or pointed toes, and
the shoes might well be low slippers. soldiers might wear
hob-nailed boots, with nail-heads studding the sole and acting
like cleats. in damp climates, the shoes might well have
wooden soles. in any case, my Fry boots, which are my number
one choice for swashbuckling in, have square toes, 2 inch heels,
and reinforced leather soles, about 1/2 inch thick. these are
closest to coachman's boots, hardly to be worn by the
sword-carrying class.
---------------------
"A performer from, say, the Peking opera, will be able to jump
great heights and land hard on a concrete floor without
sustaining damage even though they wear only Kung-Fu
slippers or even bare feet. It is all a question of technique and
practice."--Alister
Yes--and no. How many 50 year old performers are doing these
jumps? Seriously, I'd expect very few. it's easy to point out guys
like Jacky Chan, but he also has access to the best training and
treatment of both modern and traditional chinese medical
thought. There are very few Jacky Chans.
--------------------
"Though I could not tell you the force my ideal lunge would
generate in pounds, I assure you that a lunge that generates
1000 lbs of force on impact is anything but a "good" lunge in my
book. Fast and forceful, sure, but your chance of reversing that
much momentum and being able to recover quickly is nil. That,
and flinging yourself forward like that is likely to leave you flat on
your face on any less-than-ideal surface, but more on that point
later.I think we are clearly making different assumptions about
what a lunge is, or should be."--Antoine
I think that we are making different assumptions here. I'll just
clarify my concept of a lunge: the amount of force generated is
immaterial. The fact that that much force can be generated is
beside the fact, except that the blade has to be able to penetrate,
as I've said before. The key conceptual point of the lunge is that it
covers the distance of two paces (roughly) in a single tempo. So,
right there, we are neccessarily talking about acceleration, and
that's were the force comes from. there's no conspicuous
difference between a rennaisance lunge (hand & foot moving
together) and a later lunge (hand first) as long as it's one
continuous tempo. Obviously, the landing has to be accurate, so
you know where you are before you get there, and stable so that
you can continue to fight and move if neccessary. So long as
those requisites are satisfied, the amont of power is immaterial,
but more power is naturally produced when the action is cleaner
and/or faster.
You have me completely lost when you talk about "reversing" the
lunge. In order to lunge you have to be committed to it. You can
"recover" from a lunge after you finish executing it, but I don't
know how you can "reverse" it. In any case, at the completion of
the lunge, you've fiinished with the momentum, and shouldn't
have a problem with recovery, regardless the strength or speed.
-----------------------
"Not having skewered anyone lately I can't answer that one.
I can say that power of penetration shouldn't come from
acceleration or muscular force; it comes primarily from proper
skeletal alignment." --Antoine
Well, I've been present at two accidental skewerings over the
years. Both were apparantly forceless, in fact, the recipients
didn't feel the cut, but these weren't launched with the intent to
thust through, merely touch from as far away as possible (well,
one was into the lung, but that was less than 2 inchesof
penetration). these were with Modern saber blades which are
very thin, and didn't hit any resistance.
in any case, alignment is static by definition--if the bones are
moving, the alignment is changing, and there is motion (vectors
of force & acceleration).
-----------------
"Sure. But safer equipment becomes a crutch for many people;
with the assumption that equipment makes you safe comes
irresponsible fencing. Self control and technique should always
be your first line of protection, with the gear there just in case.
I would question the assumption that fencing is safer because of
modern equipment; say rather that modern equipment allows
fencers to fence in more dangerous ways with less fear of the
consequences. "Better" shoes allow fencers to perform
unhealthy actions longer before the consequences become
apparent."--Antoine
I think this depends on the teacher, and the self discipline of the
student. safety equipment is there for the unexpected and
unavoidable. unhealthy actions can vary between individuals. A
certain number of devoted fencers with perfect form may still get
plantar faschiitis (repetitive stress injury to the sole of the foot) for
example, because it's a natural anatomical weakspot for them.
So why not cover all your bases? Good form is better for you than
bad form, but still not neccessarily good for you.
Well, that's where I stand,
Cheers,
J
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