Need help in giving a mask a face lift

[Talyn]

I have this mask which is slightly rusted and a pretty shoddy bib which is all brown and stuff.

Right now ive taken the really bad bits of rust off and its soaking in some washing powder and bleach, after that im gonna paint over the spots without paint and make it look nice again.

Is there anything else I can/should do to make it look better?

Im gonna sell this mask by the way...:P

[Swordmaster]

Why would you indanger the life of another fencer? Just retire it to a fencing dummy. You will get much more satisfaction from fencing the dummy than you would ever get from the few dollars you are going to get for a possibly unservicable mask and you won't risk the guilt associated with possibly contributing to the injury of a fellow fencer.
If you don't know how to go about building a dummy, get Rudy Volkmann's Big Book of Fencing . It has a material list and very detailed instructions about how to go about the task of building a partner you can beat! Go Here to find one.
Be Safe,
Scott

[i'mnottelling]

If you wouldn't put it on your own face then don't sell/give it to any one else.

Trash it!

We don't need to see any news stories about blades piercing masks.

i'mnt

[Wizardly]

Something that was told to me:
You never never never never never never never never never never put your fencing equipment in bleach.

IMHO: the mask is the piece of equipment you want to splurge on most when it comes to safety.

If you wouldn't wear it, why should somebody else? Would you drive over a bridge the designer wouldn't set foot on? Would you live someplace even the rats don't go? Why would you convince someone to wear a mask you wouldn't wear?

Trash the mask. Make a halloween costume out of it. Attach a broken blade to it so that it looks like you got run through the face. Make a practice dummy out of it. Turn it into a piece of art. Just don't let somebody wear it to fence.

[daeceg]

Agreed.

Might make a good planter.

[Talyn]

nonono....

The only reason im selling it is not because its unsafe or anything, its passed all the tests and up till now ive used it. But because my bro quit fencing and he has a 1600 N one and since theres no point in having 2 masks I thought i might take the stains off my old one to make it look better before a sell it.

It still passes all the punch tests.

[Talyn]

Im only soaking the bib in the bleach and since its passed all the punch tests i don't think theres anything wrong with it...

Im not going to soak the metal mesh thingy in it, thats just stupid.

I won't give another fencer something I won't use, its just that I don't think theres any point in having 2 masks.

[Wizardly]

Chlorine = bad for cloth, particularly the kind that you want strong and tough (like the nylon or other material of a fencing mask bib). I hear it's particularly harmful to kevlar.

[Talyn]

hmm, Im gonna have to test it again after i give it a face lift just incase.

Thanks.

[Swordmaster]

Once you have soaked the cloth in chlorine bleach the damage is done. How do you plan to test the bib? You can not detect which fibers have been weakened by the bleach. (boy, I am having some serious dejavue here. I had this discussion on similar but nastier site about a year ago. In fact, I got so disgusted by the posts that I don't even go there any more....I digress) The breakdown caused by the bleach is at level so small that you couldn't see it with your naked eye.
I wouldn't suggest you even use it yourself as a practice mask now.
There are pleanty of vendors selling masks for a living and having to carry liability insurance to cover themselves just incase a mask or some other peice of equipment fails and the user decides to sue (the american pastime). Why are you willing to take that risk for a few dollars?
Do us and yourself a favor, put the gun back in the drawer and quit pointing it at you friends.

[Talyn]

geez no need to be so hostile and all, you can test the bib in multiple spots, but just to be on the safe side I'll keep it as a practice one.

Im not going to sell crappy gear to people, I just didn't know that it would damage it that badly.

[Swordmaster]

Originally posted by Talyn
geez no need to be so hostile and all, you can test the bib in multiple spots, but just to be on the safe side I'll keep it as a practice one.

Im not going to sell crappy gear to people, I just didn't know that it would damage it that badly.

Bravo!
Sorry if I had seamed hostile, that was not my intention.

One more thing though, how do you plan to "test" the bib? I hope you don't mean with the Mask punch tester. That is meant to only test the mess of the mask - not the bib.
If you are serious about testing the bib, 12k of force is not suffcient and the tester has the wrong diameter point which could damage the fabric.
Here are the rules about the testing of cloth used in fencing gear (and the reason that clothing and bibis are not tested at national events.)
3.1. RESISTANCE OF CLOTH AGAINST PERFORATION
STANDARDS FOR TESTING THE RESISTANCE
OF CLOTH AGAINST PERFORATION
1. Generalities
The method which is the subject of this standard is intended to determine the
resistance against perforation of cloth used to make up fencing uniforms.
The perforation load is defined as the maximum value of impacts registered
before the sample of cloth is perforated by the test probe: the load is expressed
in Newtons or else in kilograms of force to one decimal place.
2. Methods of conducting the test
2.1. The test takes place using a high speed dynamometer (as, for example, the
INSTROM 1273 apparatus) fitted with a moving test probe of l = 3 mm diameter
with a pyramidal head and an angle at the tip of 120° (see Figure A.2, section
A); this probe must be made of high speed or super high speed steel, with a
length of 70 mm, of which at least 50 mm juts out from the holding device (see
Figure A.2, section B).
2.1.1. The travel of the point must be perpendicular to the surface of the cloth
during the course of the test.
2.1.2. The speed of the probe during the test component of its travel must be
more than 6 m/s.
2.2. The test must be conducted in a place where the temperature is 20–25°C
and with a relative humidity of 50–55%.
2.3. The samples for the test must be taken from a piece of cloth around 50 cm
high, free of faults and obtained at random at a distance of at least 2 m from the
ends.
The samples must be square in shape with sides of 14–15 cm and they must be
fixed on a device with a double vice (see Figure A.3) while leaving a section of
50 mm diameter free for the test.
In the case of fabrics made of several separated layers of cloth, a continuous
seam must be sewn along the sides of the square of material which constitutes
the sample.
2.4. The samples of cloth must be brought to the area where the test will take
place at least two hours before the test.
2.5. During the test the force applied by the probe must be registered under
the proper conditions of temperature and humidity. The end of the scale for
measuring the forces must not be more than 5000 Newton with a tolerance of
± 5 Newton).
2.6. For each cloth, at least three samples must be tested, taken at random
from the piece of cloth.
3. Results
The following data must be shown on the certificate confirming that the test
has been carried out:
(a) The name of the company applying, type and brand of cloth;(b) The maximum force at the point of penetration for each sample and their
average, and the comparative graphic traces of the test;
(c) The type of dynamometer used, the type and speed of the probe in the test
component of its travel, and the conditions of the test (temperature and
relative humidity).
This is why you should take great care in visually checking your mask and not subjecting the bib to any harsh chemical, because once damage has occured there is only one recourse, replace the bib.
For future reference, the dishwasher method of cleaning seams to work best, some people air dry, while others use a blow drier.
I hope you will consider either retiring the mask, or if you want to sell it - mark the bib as bad with a permenent marker so that the future owner can get the bib replaced.

[Talyn]

Normally I just hand wash it using a toothbrush using the dish washing sometimes soaks through to the metal part on the back and if its partly iron or if it corrodes it just completely wrecks it.

[CarlKnoch]

Hey all, isn't there a way to sew in a new bib on a mask? That would solve the problem of possible damage to a bib by bleach. (Although I've never heard of bleach damaging a bib to any degree before, so that's all very new to me.)

Also, I'm curious since I have a new Uhlmann mask, and it almost immediately got a small dent in the mesh.... What can/should be done about that? Should it be pushed back out, and if so, how, or should the mask be retired after 3 months of service because the dent poses the possibility of catching a blade tip and making me eat it?

[Swordmaster]

Originally posted by CarlKnoch
Hey all, isn't there a way to sew in a new bib on a mask? That would solve the problem of possible damage to a bib by bleach. (Although I've never heard of bleach damaging a bib to any degree before, so that's all very new to me.)

Yes, most masks can have a new bib installed (see previous post). Several manufacturers even sell replacement bibs. Bill Hall, who is a armorer in MASS, does this service on a regular basis.

Also, I'm curious since I have a new Uhlmann mask, and it almost immediately got a small dent in the mesh.... What can/should be done about that? Should it be pushed back out, and if so, how, or should the mask be retired after 3 months of service because the dent poses the possibility of catching a blade tip and making me eat it?

Take the mask to an armorer and let him work the dent out. Keep an eye on the spot, if it redents in the same area, punch test it before ever use. If it fails the test - even once - remove the mask from service.

[Inquartata]

However, unless it's an expensive FIE or electric sabre mask it's usually more trouble than it's worth to replace the bib. Especially if you have to sew it by hand...easier just to get another mask.