Sport Ax/Chainsaw on ESPN

[Catal]

That's right... "TimberSports" have more television draw than Fencing. Next up, sport paint drying.

http://espn.go.com/outdoors/general/...ts_021206.html

Hey, what's that next to my feet...? Oh, it's my pride.

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Catal
That's right... "TimberSports" have more television draw than Fencing. Next up, sport paint drying.

http://espn.go.com/outdoors/general/...ts_021206.html

Hey, what's that next to my feet...? Oh, it's my pride.

Where have you been for the past few YEARS?

this example has been brought up REPEATEDLY!

-m

[Catal]

Ah, I'd forgotten why I put you on my ignore list. Anyhoo, a search for "chainsaw" or "axes" on this site does not bring up any mention of it as a sport. And, if this was mentioned in the last broo ha ha over Fencing/TV, do point it out... or, were you one of the bonobos who speaks without supplying evidence?

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Catal
Ah, I'd forgotten why I put you on my ignore list. Anyhoo, a search for "chainsaw" or "axes" on this site does not bring up any mention of it as a sport. And, if this was mentioned in the last broo ha ha over Fencing/TV, do point it out... or, were you one of the bonobos who speaks without supplying evidence?

LOL

I really don't see any need to go digging through the forum. however, I can guarantee you that it HAS been cited repeatedly, because it is one of my favorite examples:

The outdoor games first PAID to have their shows on ESPN very early on Sunday morning. When the paid spots ended, ESPN got letters asking for it to come back. it had built an audience. now ESPN pays THEM for it. It is a model I would like to see the USFA use. You can go back to ignoring everybody now. I guess it's no shocker that you didn't hear the myriad of discussions about this, given that you are ignoring the whole board....

-m

[AllezCat]

My favorite was always the discussions about fencing not being on television because it's a "geek sport", followed by ESPN2 pre-empting regular programming to cover the finals of the National Spelling Bee...

[Catal]

A frustratingly accurate point, AllezCat. It'd be helpful if we knew just what Massik was doing to publicize fencing, and why he's been so unsuccessful. At least when NBA deals go bad, we know why. So and so didn't like the contract... they couldn't get a satellite time, etc... Instead, we have to watch the Titan games and go, "Where da fencin' at?"

[rvergara]

I saw the ESPY awards and not a single fencing sequence. I'm not saying an award, just some cool footage would have been alright.
There were even high school sports and no fencing, and as I understand the USA does have outstanding fencers. Why don't they get recognition?

[Catal]

None of us here have an idea, or no one is willing to admit they have a concrete answer for why Fencing is not on television. My theory is that Massik (our esteemed USFA leader) is an idiot, and should have been voted out of office years ago. My proof? Here: If you visit the US Axeman's Association competition site, you'll see that since the site has been active, there have only been 11,710 hits (as of this writing.)

http://www.usaxemen.com/usaa/index.html

The Axemen site was created in 2001. The organization has been around since 1994. However, the Axemen have been on television for years, and they compete for large prize purses ($250,000 and a truck at the last championship event) with only three sponsors.

What the hell did Massik do to piss off ESPN?

[drayke]

Originally posted by Catal
That's right... "TimberSports" have more television draw than Fencing. Next up, sport paint drying.

http://espn.go.com/outdoors/general/...ts_021206.html

Hey, what's that next to my feet...? Oh, it's my pride.

Well, it's more exciting than BASS FISHING!

[KShan5[PrFC]]

The thing that would not attract fencing is that ROW is very complicated and the general public would not pick it up at all. One inderstand the outdoor games, get though the wood first...win. SPelling Bee, spell the msot words right...win. But if you try and to explain preperation to someone, and have them see it, it is near impossible. Now obvisously there is epee, the rules are easy enought to understand. But epee is very ssssslllllllloooooooowwwwwwww...and to non-fencers, boring.

[Catal]

Originally posted by KShan5[PrFC]
But epee is very ssssslllllllloooooooowwwwwwww...and to non-fencers, boring.

Yeah, but then we get into that whole Epee vs. Curling thing again. I think the reason is more to do with how Fencing is managed as a whole, and less to do with the sport itself.

From Massik's welcome letter: "Our organization exists to promote the sport of fencing in the United States..."

Does anyone see the promotion of Fencing anywhere? At the very least, the USFA could produce a national calendar. It's not like Walden's or Barnes & Noble are gonna refuse when they sell things like this . Eric Hansen and 11 of the top fencers could do some muscle shots. Harley Davidson has been selling calendars for decades. Even if you've never seen a Harley dealer, you've probably seen one of their calendars (or a competitors') at the book store. The way I learned about fencing was from my school janitor. (Not the best way to learn about a sport.)

[zeidolon]

What does the manga link have to do with things? Especially that one? Chobits is hugely popular and an excellent storyline/art. No sports involved there, unless you consider teaching a robot about human customs a sport.

* Note: For those of you that dont know manga=illustrated and anime=animated. Usually asian oriented and featuring robots, ninjas, aliens, ghosts, and/or teenagers struggling to overcome very awkward and humorous situations. That was the very oversimplified explanation of a very complex and culture rich phenomenom.

Robert/Zeidolon

[Catal]

Okay, Robert-chan. I think it's quite clear to anyone, who doesn't get off on cartoon porn like "Chobits," that if Barnes & Noble will sell that piece of "literature," they'll be quite likely to sell a more respectable calendar with our countries best fencers.

I understand the need to defend your lifestyle, but don't feign stupidity. And, don't lie about what "Manga" really is either. Anyone who's been to a Manga convention knows a third of that stuff is rated NC-17.

[Indy4ever]

they sell that 'literature' because people can be weird but still have deep pockets. I don't believe that a fencing calender would be popular enough to warrant publication. However, if you could convince the countries best to go naked (like the womens institute) it would be flying off the shlelves:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/317395.stm

[FlamingDeth]

Catal: I would like to point out that "manga" are just Japanese graphic novels, and the proportion of innappropriate manga to appropriate manga is no different than the proportion of innappropriate American graphic novels to appropriate ones.

Zeidolon: I think his point is that they carry things with such a specific target audience, so they aren't likely to refuse anything that USFA would publish. However, I don't find it a particularly valid point, as a search for "fencing" on the site comes up with plenty of materials on the subject.

[Catal]

However, if you could convince the countries best to ...

I don't think Hansen would go for that.

[Catal]

Originally posted by FlamingDeth
However, I don't find it a particularly valid point, as a search for "fencing" on the site comes up with plenty of materials on the subject.

Being on the Internet doesn't grant one instant recognition. There's no substitute for direct marketing. Putting a product in the consumer market creates recognition. No one is going to think to look for Fencing if there isn't something to pique their interest. One doesn't just spontaneously think, "Oh, yeah... What about Fencing?" The movie Zorro created a lot of interest because people saw that and said, "Hey, I want to do that. What about fencing?" Well, you can't keep depending on Hollywood to save the USFA's ***. Why else do you think Burger King advertises at key points in the day? USFA needs to do the same. Barnes & Noble happens to cater to some of the people that would be interested in Fencing, so put something there for them to see. How of many of you can drive down the road and see billboard ads for cigarettes and Pepsi. USFA needs to put up ads too. "Thirsty? Try a Pepsi." "Want to lose weight? Try Fencing."

There aren't many Golf clubs in my area, only around two or three large ones. Yet, I can go down the street and see billboard ads, and know there's a Golf club in the area. I can go to the bookstore and pick-up a magazine, or a calender and take it home. What does Fencing have that's cheap to buy and easy to sell...? Foam sabers, pins... Things you can find only on the web, or competitions, and only if you're looking for it. Put a fencing magazine at Barnes & Noble, and somone will see it. If it'll make you happy, they can put it next to the Manga section. I don't care just as long as the USFA lets everyone else know, "Look, we're here."

[zeidolon]

Originally posted by Catal
Okay, Robert-chan. I think it's quite clear to anyone, who doesn't get off on cartoon porn like "Chobits," that if Barnes & Noble will sell that piece of "literature," they'll be quite likely to sell a more respectable calendar with our countries best fencers.

I understand the need to defend your lifestyle, but don't feign stupidity. And, don't lie about what "Manga" really is either. Anyone who's been to a Manga convention knows a third of that stuff is rated NC-17.

At the risk of hijacking the thread, I feel the need to reply to Catal here. I am more than happy to continue the conversation in another thread or via email if Catal or anyone else desires. All of my IM addresses are published in a separate thread here if you want to chat that way instead.

Catal, while I appreciate your opinion, I didn't appreciate the accusatory and derogatory tone of your post. I was not defending a "lifestyle", nor was I feigning "stupidity". One of my clients is a Hong Kong corporation, and as a result, I work with some of their Asian partners (Malaysia, Japan, Singapore). Between that, and my membership in the NCSU Japan Center and the RTP Council for Entrepreneurial Development, I know very well what Anime and Manga are. I advise you to not make aggressive and uninformed opinions based on one thing you may have seen or someone told you about. There is generally more nudity, violence, and adult situations in American comic books than in Manga. I'll qualify that statement too, I used to own a comic book store in the early 90's.

I also do not understand what you meant about me lying about manga. I gave a fair and reasonable "simple" definition about what it is, and anyone doing a search on "definition of manga" will find hundreds of links with similar, albeit more detailed" definitions. Granted, there are some manga/anime that is created and intended to be of an adult nature...these are referred to as "hentai" (loosely translated as "pervert"). Chobits does not fall into that category...the story is not about sex, it is about a teenager who finds himself the owner of a realistic robot that is struggling to find her humanity. Chobits is more of a situational comedy and social commentary than anything else.

By the way, just for reference, ALL of the following are considered Anime, and can be found on Fox, Cartoon Network, TechTV, and anywhere else that usually shows cartoons: Dragonball Z, Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Shaman King, Big O, Inuyasha, Gundam, Lupin the 3rd, Rorouni Kenshin, Cowboy Bebop, and generally anything with giant robots. Anime Movies include: Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, Kiki's Delivery Service, and many others. Guess which ones are distributed in the US by Disney/Miramax??

Anyway, I don't think there is much of a market for a fencing related calendar. They are seasonal items, and low margins. It would be better if we had more fencing exposure in movies, ESPN, and so forth. Personally, Id like to see a MTV "Road Rules" team try to learn fencing in one of their little events. MTV and stuff like the X-Games are great high-profile venues for fencing...we just need someone to go out and get the deals done.

In closure, my apologies for the long post which was mostly off-topic. Please no flames, if you want to debate this further, start a thread in the water cooler section of the forum, or reply privately please. Otherwise, save it for when we meet on the strip.

Notes: 1) I have never read "Chobits" manga, so I can only guess what Catal is basing their opinion on. 2) I own the entire "Chobits" anime, which is based on the manga. There is absolutely zero porn or adult content in it.

Respectfully,

Robert/Zeidolon

[zeidolon]

"-chan" is reserved for young girls. "-kun" or "-san" is more appropriate for referring to men, depending on the context of the relationship. : )

Speaking of fencing magazines, are there any out there? I haven't even seen the token single issue of one at any bookstore around here, but plenty for other small niche interests. I'll start picketing Border's to carry at least a few issues if I need to.

Robert

[FlamingDeth]

Hm. My point had very little to do with manga and everything to do with gross generalizations, but we'll ignore that for now.

I'm very aware that being on the internet does not grant instant recognition, and never even implied that it did. There are a lot of things that no one is going to search for unless there is something to pique their interest. No one is going to randomly look for that particular graphic novel any more than they're going to randomly look for materials on fencing.

That said, I do agree that USFA needs to put more effort into publicity. I know that with my USFA membership I get a magazine in the mail, "American Fencing" I think it's called, which the USFA really has no reason for not putting on store shelves.