fencing and the US media

[Mo]

Fencing already is TV friendly if there is an announcer that knows diddly squat.
When the US starts winning medals in fencing, which it is now, it will be on TV, like it is now.

My DD and I saw a short sport Minute in Nickoleon which had Sada Jacobson winning the final point in NYC at the World Cup. Fencing was featured on World News Tonight.(Keeth Smart has been on TV quite a bit lately too.)

Was Sada J. on TV because that particular event was more friendly??
HECK NO! She was there because she won.

The American Public likes to win and think of themselves as winners by what American Athletes can do.

There are a lot of good feners in the US, the more we have, the more popular fencing will become.

Instead of debating this issue try working on your fencing..... Another thing that would definitely help fencing is if Fencers would write to the large companies like Cocoa Cola, John Hancock and Kodak and tell them they need to support both team and individual events and both men's and women's events. They need to put a little caveat on their MASSIVE donations to the USOC.
Since the decision came down to eliminate the Women's Foil and Saber Team events, fencers have been very quiet. Why is that?

[Indy4ever]

That is a good point. During the winter olympics womens curling made it to a prime time slot on BBC1 because Britain was in the final. Still, people have pretty much forgotten that.
But it does come down to 'would coca cola want to sponsor fencing?' Maybe, but it is still a sport out of the public eye and it wouldnt exactly be easy to force it into a prominent space out in the open. but hell, it couldnt hurt to ask them.

How do they go about getting large/medium scale sponsorship for other sports?

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by Wizardly
[B
-too many epee and saberists wanting to turn foil into epee or saber
[/b]

No need, foilists are turning foil into sabre on their own. You have only to watch a bout between two dedicated flickers to see the resemblance. At the higher levels even the movement rate is as fast as in sabre.

[Mo]

Originally posted by Indy4ever
That is a good point. During the winter olympics womens curling made it to a prime time slot on BBC1 because Britain was in the final. Still, people have pretty much forgotten that.
But it does come down to 'would coca cola want to sponsor fencing?' Maybe, but it is still a sport out of the public eye and it wouldnt exactly be easy to force it into a prominent space out in the open. but hell, it couldnt hurt to ask them.

How do they go about getting large/medium scale sponsorship for other sports?

It is not exactly that Coca Cola wants to support fencing but that Coca Cola has a lot more power than fencers do.
If a couple thousand fencers wrote to Coke, Kodak and the big companies telling the that the USOC will not support a sport fully by adding two medals to the Olympics for an event that is already existing for men, they may think twice.
I was thinking of the Kodak moment commercials and really would like to find a great picture of the Women's saber team that won the gold in the last world cup. I would send the picture to Kodak and tell them this is something that will not happen in the Olympics, there will never be this Kodak Moment because the IOC is a bunch of money mongering pigheaded male chauvenist pigs who do not want to recognize a legit women's sport.

I heard at the USFA Congress that the IOC wants to get rid of all the team events for fencing because it is the same as the individual events. Of course the fact that gymnastics has a individual, team and all around with the same events and same people doing them does not seem to dawn on them.

The fact that Alexis Jamal flew all the way to the Pan American games and could not fence seems to show that something is wrong. Fencers lose events. any events in the Olympics, they could lose them all.
As fencers, and especially was women fencers, a lot of you should be concerned.
Follow the money!!
John Hancock does a lot for gymnastics, maybe someone else will pick up fencing.

[westcoastsabre]

I spent an hour yesterday explaining how fencing was different from what zorro does. Networks don't want to show fencing because the public doesn't know what it is. In europe, where much more of the population is familiar with the sport, it gets TV time. If people knew that fencing was fencing and not Errol flynn, then people might have more of an interest. Every person who I've ever taken to a fencing tournament has immediately enjoyed watching the sport (after some color commentary from me). Perhaps, thats what the sport needs, more people going out there and educating the public, its fascinating to watch... but before anyone wants to watch fencing they have to know what it is. Lets try to help people know what the sport is first, then maybe itll show up on ESPN.

[zeidolon]

Wear your fencing gear everywhere. I am sure we would get a lot of press if we had a national "fencing gear" day.

* Impress the ladies with your fleche in the mosh pit at the next rock concert!

* Pratice point control at the office by using your foil to turn the lights on and off!

* Challenge your local news weather anchor to a duel the first time he predicts snow!

* Get a passport picture taken at kinkos, and refuse to take your mask off!

* Wear your knickers everywhere! Stylish and comfortable!

* Remember to remove your fencing glove and throw it to the ground in disgust everytime the politician of your choice says something you don't like!

* Practice advancing/retreating in-place while waiting in line at the bank.

* Try "Hey baby, did you know fencers *thrust* with style?" as a pick up line the next time you are at the bar.

* Try arguing the rules of right of way the next time you get a traffic ticket.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally posted by zeidolon


* Try arguing the rules of right of way the next time you get a traffic ticket.

in drivers ed, the question was "compare driving to anything"

and, of course, i chose fencing

and as i did it, i discovered that there were way more similarities than i thought.....

[Wizardly]

About arguing a ROW when getting a ticket...
...you can't argue with traffic cops. Right or wrong, you're always wrong. Besides, you get a ticket for ignoring ROW...like when you run a red light or fail to stop at a stop sign.

Perhaps nobody gets right of way because everyone who complains about it makes it sound godawful and complicated? "It's this bizarre and unnatural set of rules that says when you're allowed to hit the other person. It's unrealistic and contrived." I really find it pretty simple, like WCS did, to give an understandable explanation and then watch the fans enjoy the bout. The only real problem with fencing is the speed at which it happens - and you can't do much about that (short of fencing in a fluid as dense but more viscous than air, or screwing with gravity). Then again, you can't see how the major league ballplayer swung the bat, or the golfer swung the club, or how the archer show the arrow...you see the result, and for fencing, it's a green or red light. That's probably enough.

Inq:
Perhaps it is that the movement rate of elite saber now more closely resembles that of foil since the institution of the no-crossover rule? Perhaps it is instead that saber is just the flick aspect of foil with the arms and head added and no need to bend the blade? It's a matter of perception. Besides, this is moot to the point I'm making - the way foil is fenced is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the proposed rule changes by epee and saber fencers to make foil into a sport more like epee and saber (than it already is).

We need some fencing clothes. Ballcaps, jerseys, t-shirts, jackets. How about something with this on the back:
Smart
USA
or
Zimmerman
USA
Somebody has to have struck a cool pose out of which we can make an "air jordan" kind of logo. Just a thought.

[rukovsoft]

well

lots of people are complaining about the lack of communication of the usfa. they blame it for the lack of mediatisation of our sport.
however i think that the internal communication (i mean the communication to the fencing world memebers in the US) is really good in the US. you can find lots of infos on the usfa website.
the database of referee with their rankings is very convenient too.
we don t have that in france. same for rankings, info on national competitions...
usfa does a good job on disseminating those infos.

however, their extermal communication, i mean their PR is kinda lame. do they have professional part time pr people who write press release? they communicat epretty bad on particular issues.

Finally, it seems that PR is a big problem not only in the US. In france, same thing, they re pretty bad at communicating in general. In a world where everything depends more and more on image, pr and communication it s maybe time our federations use professionals to do that.

they could even use students or interns to do that if they want to save money.

in a nutshell the link between unefficient of communication of a league and the lack of media cover are more than linked.
flood newspaper, local and national with press release, and they ll end up mentionaing it. especially at the local level.

fencing is interesting. it produces interestign articles.
be proactive and send press release or stories to newspaper, and they ll end up mentionning our sport sooner or later.

[Charles Staley]

What did it take to make golf popular?

Tiger Woods.

Also, if televised, you need to take some sharp weapons and impale a side of beef of a watermelon or something, so people understand what's (theoretically) going on.

Fencing is somewhat unique in that (most of the time anyway) you can't see the athlete's face. This makes it hard for TV viewers to get emotionally involved.

Finally, and traditionalists will hate this, but you probably need jazzier uniforms to help get the public's imagination engaged.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally posted by Charles Staley
What did it take to make golf popular?

Tiger Woods.

Also, if televised, you need to take some sharp weapons and impale a side of beef of a watermelon or something, so people understand what's (theoretically) going on.

Fencing is somewhat unique in that (most of the time anyway) you can't see the athlete's face. This makes it hard for TV viewers to get emotionally involved.

Finally, and traditionalists will hate this, but you probably need jazzier uniforms to help get the public's imagination engaged.

there are four ways to make a person maybe a little bit emotionally involved with someone in a lot of protective gear-

~allow spiffy uniforms
~allow yelling
~close up shots on the fencers after touches, so you can see their faces..
~'allow' brawls, at least the same way hockey does...


now, i don't think we should do all of them myself, and the conservative fencers of the board will hate any steps towards any of them.

i'd be interested in how the conservatives would like to see us get tv audiences emotionally involved. becuase all the former points have been debated, and while they might have pros, i definately understand the cons.... i'd be interested in seeing some alternate ideas.

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by Wizardly

Inq:
Perhaps it is that the movement rate of elite saber now more closely resembles that of foil since the institution of the no-crossover rule? Perhaps it is instead that saber is just the flick aspect of foil with the arms and head added and no need to bend the blade?

Well, no...sabre was a cutting weapon long before the advent of the flick, much less its ubiquity. Pretty difficult to imitate something that doesn't exist yet... And foil footwork, too, used to be much more sedate and full of deliberative pauses---which sabre ever was...

[Inquartata]

Name a country or fencing organization whose "PR" people are so skillful that they've made fencing wildly successful and popular with the general public.

It isn't just the USFA. It's the nature of fencing and of the general public at bottom, not of the PR efforts.

And golf was not an obscure little salon sport before Tiger Wood came along, either. Bad analogy, I think.

Frankly, I do not believe that fencing CAN be made spectacularly successful, without altering the sport so much that it becomes unrecognizeable. And the sooner the USFA and FIE realize that and drop the windmill-tilting, the better. All their efforts to make fencing "spectator friendly" and "media attractive" have merely managed to squander resources with negligible effect. However devoutly the consummation may be wish'd, fencing is NOT going to become soccer. Or even tennis. It's going to be what it is and has always been. We should stop beating our heads against that particular wall before we dash our brains out.

[Indy4ever]

frankly, that is isnt a bad line of thought. And to be honest, it isnt like the sport is cripplingly unpopular as it is, right?

[Sildar]

Originally posted by remise
Participation and education. Most people honestly believe that fencing involves swinging from chandeliers, curtains, and jumping with swords down a flight of stairs. Hollywood has damaged fencing more than helped it.

I have had the occasion to approach several TV personalities and ask them if they would like to come to our local club and give fencing a try. Their response,"I am not athletic enough to swing from a curtain or a chandelier."

These were faces that Marylanders see on TV all of the time. Perception is 9/10ths of reality. We have GOT to change the perception, first.

Wait, you missed one obvious option; maybe we should add chandaliers, curtains, and flights of stairs to the strip. I bet more people would watch then...

If that fails, we're sure to get more viewers if we hold tournaments in a room full of ladders

We should also start wearing capes. You gotta admit, the fleche would look much more dramatic...

[Inquartata]

Not if you believe the grumbling about how big and difficult to run the national tournaments are, certainly. Good old-fashioned recruiting combined with the occasional "Zorro" remake seem to be having much more effect than plexiglass panels in masks and the like...

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally posted by Sildar


We should also start wearing capes. You gotta admit, the fleche would look much more dramatic...

ah yes, but the cape couldn't really be conductive, because i mean, going past someone, not hitting target area, but then slipping into their cape? i mean, really. it'd have to be some sort of nonconductive material.

but... then... what would happen to flicks????


i'm sure that certain members of the "DOWN WITH FLICKS" subset would love this idea ; )

[wflaschka]

Today I heard a story on NPR about how several women's sports are shrinking. Women's basketball, women's soccer -- attendance is down. Teams are dissolving.

The point was made that it's extremely expensive to reach critical mass -- to pay pro athletes and to do enough promotion to have audiences for them. There are a lot of pro sports vying for people's time. It's a cut-throat world.

A lot of people seem to want a Football-level of fame for fencing... i.e., TV time. I'd be happy with an Archery or Bowling level -- i.e., off-peak cable time. If the USFA doubled its membership fees, and spent the extra 50% solely on promotion, then we'd start getting somewhere. But it would take something on that level or greater; perhaps we need to get a dot-com billionaire addicted to the sport.

[DHCJr]

This past weekend there was a nice article in USA Weekend on Women Olympic Atheletes and one of the featured ladies was Iris Zimmerman.

[Inquartata]

I just finished clipping that one myself!