08-07-2003, 01:54 AM
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#1 | | Member
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: cincinnati
Posts: 35
| Can Milanoli Win Another World Championship
Do you think Milanoli can win another world championship,and what do you think of his fencing style?I think it's just a matter of time before he wins another world championship.
Best Regards,
Brett/Tantricthonger | 
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08-07-2003, 08:45 AM
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#2 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: May 2000 Location: The valley of the -hot- sun, NorCal
Posts: 3,184
| I think Milanoli can win another world championship. I am not sure if he will, considering the highly volatile nature of epee results, but he could very well win another one.
He will however have a lot of strong contenders to beat on his way there: the Jeannet bros, Kolobkov (if his heart doesn't give him trouble), the Chineses, other Italians as well, etc...
__________________ - Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
- To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial
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08-07-2003, 12:04 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New England/DC
Posts: 610
| What's wrong with Kolobchov's heart? | |
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08-07-2003, 12:11 PM
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#4 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: May 2000 Location: The valley of the -hot- sun, NorCal
Posts: 3,184
| I read in a French newspaper an interview of Obry saying that Kolobkov had to withdraw during a few world cups because he was getting tired quickly and that his heart was not strong enough to keep him in top shape during long tournaments.
This is information that maybe a little removed from its source, but that's the most accurate that I have. One can definitely see that there are some tournaments where Kolobkov hasn't had the results that one would have expected of him. Also, it is true that he tends to be over cautious and not as intense as he used to be in tournaments, especially in the later rounds.
If that's the case and he qualifies for OG, for instance, it would not be a problem since that's direct elimination straight from the start and there aren't much bouts to fence anyway, but for a world championship, being held on 2 days it might be different.
But then again, wasn't P. Riboud fencing with only one lung?
__________________ - Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
- To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial
Last edited by veeco; 08-07-2003 at 12:18 PM.
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08-07-2003, 12:12 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New England/DC
Posts: 610
| Quote: Originally posted by veeco
I read in a French newspaper an interview of Obry saying that Kolobkov had to withdraw during a few world cups because he was getting tired quickly and that his heart was not strong enough to keep him in top shape during long tournaments.
This is information that maybe a little removed from its source, but that's the most accurate that I have. One can definitely see that there are some tournaments where Kolobkov hasn't had the results that one would have expected of him. Also, it is true that he tends to be over cautious and not as intense as he used to be in tournaments, especially in the later rounds.
But then again, wasn't P. Riboud fencing with only one lung? | I don't know who P. Riboud is, and I figured Kolobchov was just losing bouts cuz it was epee. | |
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08-07-2003, 12:17 PM
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#6 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: May 2000 Location: The valley of the -hot- sun, NorCal
Posts: 3,184
| Philippe Riboud, Bronze medalist in LA 84, 1st WC in Sofia 86, Silver in Seoul 88.
__________________ - Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
- To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial
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08-07-2003, 12:23 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New England/DC
Posts: 610
| Ahh.
I searched on FIE.
1978, silver medal.
1979, gold medal.
1980, bronze medal.
1981, didn't make the finals... rough.
1982, silver medal.
1983 AGAIN he missed the finals.
1984 bronze medal.
1985 bronze medal.
1986 gold medal.
1987 missed the finals a third time.
1988 silver medal.
1989 KOLOBCHOV bronze medal... the torch was passed for crippled fencer of the year.
But for Ribaud, 11 years, two golds, three silver and three bronze. Not bad. What did he fence like? | |
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08-07-2003, 12:31 PM
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#8 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: May 2000 Location: The valley of the -hot- sun, NorCal
Posts: 3,184
| Left handed (IIRC) french grip, he was known for having some temper on the strip. Sort of a french version of Milanoli.
I googled his name, hoping to find a picture, and found that nowadays he's making wine ;-) http://www.bkwine.com/Photo%20Galler...6-provence.htm
__________________ - Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
- To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial
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08-07-2003, 01:05 PM
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#9 | | Member
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Nantes, France
Posts: 80
| Quote: Originally posted by veeco
Left handed (IIRC) french grip, he was known for having some temper on the strip. Sort of a french version of Milanoli.
I googled his name, hoping to find a picture, and found that nowadays he's making wine ;-)
http://www.bkwine.com/Photo%20Galler...6-provence.htm | Yes, left handed, tall, some extra weight now (as Jean Francois Lamour and Philippe Boisse  ).
And if you google "Chateau Roubine" (the name of the wine), you could find about 100 results !
__________________
Michel
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Tout le secret des armes ne consiste qu'en deux choses, à donner, et à ne point recevoir, Moliere, Le bourgeois Gentilhomme | |
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08-07-2003, 01:15 PM
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#10 | | Member
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Nantes, France
Posts: 80
| Quote: Originally posted by a517dogg
Ahh.
1983 AGAIN he missed the finals.
1984 bronze medal.
| I found why on a french book about Seoul 1988 OG.
He was terribly ill in 1983 : embolie pulmonaire avec une arteriosclerose ( I don't know how to say that in English, Veeco or Rukovsoft or anyone, help me !).
So his bronze medal in 1984 was fantastic !
__________________
Michel
-)-----o
Tout le secret des armes ne consiste qu'en deux choses, à donner, et à ne point recevoir, Moliere, Le bourgeois Gentilhomme | |
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08-07-2003, 01:17 PM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Texas
Posts: 2,893
| Did you see the label of the red wine bottle that is in the middle:  | |
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08-07-2003, 01:22 PM
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#12 | | Member
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Nantes, France
Posts: 80
| Quote: Originally posted by JEC
Did you see the label of the red wine bottle that is in the middle:
| Yes, so it is the "Cuvee Phlippe Riboud".
Go on see the webpage of this wine : Chateau Roubine
__________________
Michel
-)-----o
Tout le secret des armes ne consiste qu'en deux choses, à donner, et à ne point recevoir, Moliere, Le bourgeois Gentilhomme | |
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08-07-2003, 01:24 PM
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#13 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: May 2000 Location: The valley of the -hot- sun, NorCal
Posts: 3,184
| Quote: Originally posted by michel
I found why on a french book about Seoul 1988 OG.
He was terribly ill in 1983 : embolie pulmonaire avec une arteriosclerose ( I don't know how to say that in English, Veeco or Rukovsoft or anyone, help me !).
So his bronze medal in 1984 was fantastic ! | arterial sclerosis and pulmonary embolism
__________________ - Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
- To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial
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08-07-2003, 01:35 PM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Texas
Posts: 2,893
| The two together do not make sense.
arteriosclerosis: disease of thickening of the internal walls of arteries mostly from cholesterol and other deposits. It is mostly treated by modifying the predisposing causes that led to the abnormal deposits: high cholesterol, diabetes, cigarette smoking. Then, if it not works, in some places, bypassing the contriction, or thinning the blood so that secondary deposits do not form.
pulmonary embolism: typically due to an embolism from a venous clot that travels through the venous blood stream and occludes suddenly the venous circulation through a segment of the lungs. Treated with acute ventilatory support to improve oxygenation of the portions of lung that continue to exchange O2 and CO2 and anticoagulation to stop further clots. The cause of the clot is also important, but arteriosclerosis is not typically a problem that leads to pulmonary embolism.
My bet, based on the little that I read about him, is that he had a pulmonary embolism. | |
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08-07-2003, 01:38 PM
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#15 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: May 2000 Location: The valley of the -hot- sun, NorCal
Posts: 3,184
| Well, he may have had both, even if they weren't related. I don't know, I am not a doctor... ;-o.
From your description I would say that maybe one of the veins that feed one of his lungs ended up to be clogged due to the arteriosclerosis, thus creating the embolism...
__________________ - Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
- To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial
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08-07-2003, 06:19 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,074
| Maybe he went into surgery for a stent or bypass, and then got himself a post-operative PE. I wonder if standard practice in France is to give patients those little anti-embolism boots. Rough deal in any case.
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08-07-2003, 06:35 PM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 828
| Quote: Originally posted by a517dogg
I don't know who P. Riboud is, and I figured Kolobchov was just losing bouts cuz it was epee. | Riboud was beautiful. Kolobkov is amazing, but since he let his ranking drop off, he has to do the pools, and the competitions are very large nowadays in ME, and there are also alot of DEs on the first day. In addition, on the second day, there is a large crop of new, talented and young fencers -- the Ukrainians, the French and that Polish guy come to mind immediately.
Paolo has had the misfortune in the last several World Cups to have the eventual winner in his part of the draw to knock him out. Perhaps fortune will smile on him at World Championships -- he is due for a change in luck. | |
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08-07-2003, 08:41 PM
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#18 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: May 2000 Location: The valley of the -hot- sun, NorCal
Posts: 3,184
| Actually, Kolobkov right now is 13th in the world, so no first day for him this year. I'm pretty sure that he will try and maintain that top 16 spot and even go higher next year for the OG anyway...
__________________ - Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
- To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial
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08-08-2003, 07:32 AM
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#19 | | Member
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Nantes, France
Posts: 80
| Quote: Originally posted by veeco
Left handed (IIRC) french grip, he was known for having some temper on the strip. Sort of a french version of Milanoli.
I googled his name, hoping to find a picture, and found that nowadays he's making wine ;-)
http://www.bkwine.com/Photo%20Galler...6-provence.htm | If you want to see photos or Riboud wile fencing, go to http://www.corbis.com, and type "riboud fencing" in the search box. You will see 4 pictures of him.
And if you type "0000240566-001" in the search box, you will see another photo with Riboud and Lamour.
__________________
Michel
-)-----o
Tout le secret des armes ne consiste qu'en deux choses, à donner, et à ne point recevoir, Moliere, Le bourgeois Gentilhomme
Last edited by michel; 08-08-2003 at 08:12 AM.
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08-08-2003, 02:56 PM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 828
| Quote: Originally posted by veeco
Actually, Kolobkov right now is 13th in the world, so no first day for him this year. I'm pretty sure that he will try and maintain that top 16 spot and even go higher next year for the OG anyway... | That is now. He only competed in 4 competitions this year -- Barcelona, Heidenheim, Legnano and Sydney. He was in the pools in Heidenheim and Legnano, where he finished 40th and 60th, respectively. He didn't have to do the pools in Sydney only because 6 people ranked higher than him did not go to Sydney. It is his 6th place finish in Sydney that put him back into the top 16. | |
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