Competing in or out of your league

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

I had a look a Picojeff´s webpage. Among other things, it has an extensive theory on how to put together a yearly competition schedule so that one gets the best possible FIE rating, given the constraints of time, money, and FIE rating rules. Central to this theory is a line of thought stating (more or less) that there is a optimum competition difficulty degree for each fencer, and that if one chooses to go to competitions far from this difficulty, one will either get eliminated very early, or win but only gaining a few points, in both cases getting considerably less points than a better choice of competition would have resulted in.

I must say that I found the mathematics of the theory less than totally convincing - I can not remember seeing any airtight proof that his selection system is optimal, nor can I remember seeing much of a discussion on which side of the optimum difficulty that is best as a 2nd-hand choice. Also, a (at least to me, it seems) easier method was not dealt with. Why not use the FIE point standing tables and check them for the best competitions? Since they are on a matrix form, it should be fairly straightforward to find the competition which gave the most points (6 best comps would also be good) for each fencer, and then compile lists of best competitions for fencers within a given points span. Then, putting together a yearly schedule based on the 6 best competitions for fencers your own strength should give a good result - but I have no mathematical proof thereof.

Despite these statements, I believe Picojeff´s system to be useful - it appears to be intuitively reasonable. It got my thinking -what system should us of lesser ability use to select our competitions, given simular restrictions? What system do you use, apart from non-fencing life realities to select which competition to go to?

For the USFA U-A rating system, one do a check - which competition rating level gives the best chance to be upgraded U->E, measured as #upgradings/#incoming U´s? This could naturally be extended to any other rating pair. Which competitions tend to produce the most number of upgradings - not merely reearned ratings - ( a U->D, for example, counted as a double for this purpose) on aggregate?How often do really big rating jumps happen, I.E. U->B or A or E->A? At what competitions do they happen? Do they only happen when experienced foreign fencers enter the USFA rating system, or do they also happen to american competitors?

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[picojeff]

Originally posted by PeterGustafsson
I had a look a Picojeff´s webpage. Among other things, it has an extensive theory on how to put together a yearly competition schedule so that one gets the best possible FIE rating ...

A minor clarification. There are two conflicting goals for US fencers going to world cups: getting a higher FIE ranking, and earning the maximum US points. It's easy to decide how to get the highest FIE ranking: go to the weakest world cups you can, and as many as you can. But many of those would not earn you any additional US points even if you won. The hard part is picking one which is strong enough (on paper) to have a high multiplier, but not so hard you can't make the top 32, where you will earn the most US points.

I hadn't thought about trying to prove my theory correct. I just wanted to write it down where other left-brained people who understand fencing might read it, and I am pleased that has happened! I will think about that, and about your suggestion. Unfortunately I go on holiday in a few hours, and won't be back on the internet for 10 days.

[CarlKnoch]

Thanks for this excellent thread!

I've been fencing just over a year and for the entire first year, I went to all the opens in my Division that I could make it to. I also went to the ratings rallys in my division. I went to several U tourneys, and E and under tourneys with the hopes of upgrading to a rating. There was no way to tell what you were going to get though.

I think that for lower rated fencers like me, there is no real formula that you can use. There are no FIE points to judge by, and there is no way to know who will be at the local events. You have to show up and fence and see where you fall until you're ready to take the step up into the NACs and World Cups after that.

[three_hundred_fifty_five]

Originally posted by PeterGustafsson
...For the USFA U-A rating system, one do a check - which competition rating level gives the best chance to be upgraded U->E, measured as #upgradings/#incoming U´s?

Probably a "Unclassified only" tournament.


This could naturally be extended to any other rating pair. Which competitions tend to produce the most number of upgradings - not merely reearned ratings - ( a U->D, for example, counted as a double for this purpose) on aggregate?
The tournaments that draw a lot of competitors. What classfications are available to earn depend on how many fencers show up and how many of those are of a certain classification.

How often do really big rating jumps happen, I.E. U->B or A or E->A?
Rarely.

At what competitions do they happen?
It's usually fencers who fenced previously outside of the USFA, joined the USFA with an unclassified rating and attended an event that was rated an A or B event.

Do they only happen when experienced foreign fencers enter the USFA rating system, or do they also happen to american competitors?...
See above. I don't know of any American who made a huge jump but I have heard of American fencers who worked their way up to an A or B classification within a short period of time.

[oiuyt]

You also see a lot of jumps from collegiate fencers that suddenly start or restart USFA competition. For whatever reason(s) a large percentage of NCAA fencers don't fence often or at all in non-collegiate competitions. This can easily result in severely underrated fencers, who, when they DO fence in a USFA competition, can make a large jump to their true rating.

-B :)