Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

big poppa · 07-31-2003, 03:13 PM

What is the best method of running to build endurence for fencing? I like to jog but i have heard that wind sprints are better. What is your opnion?

a517dogg · 07-31-2003, 03:29 PM

it depends on what you need to work on. if you are getting tired after fencing 4 bouts, then do long distance running. if you are simply too slow and want more speed, then sprints are better.

GreenDot · 07-31-2003, 03:34 PM

When my team is training, we pretty much stick exclusively to suicide/shuttle runs or variations thereof. Usually something like "Sprint to the first red line, do 10 pushups, run back, sprint to 2nd red line...etc". Long distance endurance just isn't what you really need for fencing, as bouts mostly involve short bursts of energy, then you have time to recover. I'm sure jogging would help just for the cardio, but sprints would be much more beneficial in that they would get you in shape and also prepare your body more for fencing a bout/series of bouts. But then, I fence saber and was a sprinter in high school, so I may be biased.

-James

picojeff · 07-31-2003, 04:48 PM

To boost your power (strength x speed), you should sprint. This is good for almost any fencer. Running different sprint distances is a good idea, since you don't need to become a 50m expert, or a 400m expert, so mix it up week to week.

You probably need to boost your endurance some, but not as much as you would think. Long distance running is detrimental to your overall fencing physique, because your body will end up burning muscle down to the minimum necessary to keep you going forward at your long-distance pace. And that is nowhere near what you need for three minutes of solid footwork!

Any aerobic sport you enjoy is good, be it running, cycling, swimming, stairmaster, eliptical trainer, an actual aerobics class, kickbox cardio, or whatever. But don't do it for more than 60 minutes at a stretch.

Since you are already a jogger, I would just throw in some fartleks once or twice a week. As you're jogging, after you're warm, pick a telephone pole (or tree, or rock, or fire hydrant) 50-200 yards ahead, and run all out (keeping good form!) until you pass it. Then continue jogging easily until you almost feel ready to do it again. Then pick a new finish line and do it again. Continue alternating easy jog and all out sprint for the normal duration of your jog, with a longer easy stretch at the end to cool down. This continues to build your endurance as well as building power. And it really builds mental fortitude!

There are more rigid methods for running fartleks, but I prefer this "listen to your body" method, and picking different objects for your sprint finish lines is a lot more interesting than laps on a 400m oval.

The0ne · 07-31-2003, 06:35 PM

I run on my high-school track team, and those sound like what we call "In's and Out's" where, you "stride" (read sprint) 100 m then jog 100m etc.
Doing that for a mile is pretty good. . .

jspierre · 07-31-2003, 07:59 PM

Sprints are key for fencing. I noticed a difference in my fencing-fitness after I started to work them into my training.

My approach is different; I like to do "sprints" on one of those up-right stair-step machines in gyms. Basically, select the pre-programed patten that looks like high peaks and low valleys, one after another. Then when the peaks hit, ramp-up the steps per minute to the max, go all out, and don't cheat (by leaning on the assist bars). After the "sprint", which is like a very high step that starts low, try and recover on the rest interval, get your pulse down to 100 beats, then jack the speed up again on the next sprint.

To me, this regime is more like fencing - start, stop - all out, stand around.....all out...

Capt. Slo-mo · 07-31-2003, 09:51 PM

In the off season, our club does a little more long-distance running (1-3 laps on a 400 meter track at a time, in several sets) mixed with some 50-100 meter repetitive sprints.

During competition season, a few laps to warm up, then much more of the shorter, fast-twitch developing sprints.

Most of our fencers hate to run...pointing out that running is what most other sports use for punishment!

MyraTrue · 08-10-2003, 02:13 AM

I'm somewhat confused on the matter.

I guess I'll attempt to muddy the waters- I'm not sure I agree with exclusive sprints:

My trouble is that I can barely make it through a pool bout, and by the time I'm part way through the DE's, I'm bushed. I took up running to compensate, and I know when I've not been running, because just one bout drops me in my tracks. If I run, I'm in the good.

But I've taken to running 4 miles (takes about 35 minutes), and I don't know when you go from useful to detrimental. Is a shorter distance a better choice? Would, say, 2 miles be a better choice? A friend suggested jump rope, which isn't a poor thought.

And I know running is punishment for most sports, but I LIKE to run!

Myra

Talyn · 08-10-2003, 05:18 AM

If you're a particularly aggressive you might get tired quite easily... Or if you're not eating or drinking enough it might have the same affect... SO EAT

bjacobs · 08-10-2003, 05:27 PM

Myratrue, it's not that doing long distance running will hurt your fencing. Being in better shape never hurts. But the fact that you have no problem running 4 miles but get gassed by a pool bout should tell you that the two take different physical requirements. It's not an issue of how many miles you run, but of whether you're excercizing aerobically or anaerobically. Most of the time fencing is anaerobic, and while fencing your body produces energy by a different process than by distance running. You need fast paced exercise that doesn't give your body enough time to use all that air you're gulping.

Saber-Psycho · 08-10-2003, 05:40 PM

Running thru neighborhoods is good if you don't have a track near by, however if there is a track near by, maybe jog 3-5 laps (1 lap=1/4mile) to warm up, then maybe if you're feeling up to it try to sprint a lap, then rest, drink some water. Then if there are any hurdles line them up and stand in front of them and jump with 2 feet together over them (note: if they are too high you can put them down so you are jumping the part that should be on the ground) do like 2 sets of ten (of three hurdles) it's a really good plyometrics exercise
Then if you're not dying, try to jog 2-3 laps then slowly increase your laps.

retardedspleen · 08-11-2003, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GreenDot
When my team is training, we pretty much stick exclusively to suicide/shuttle runs or variations thereof. Usually something like "Sprint to the first red line, do 10 pushups, run back, sprint to 2nd red line...etc". Long distance endurance just isn't what you really need for fencing, as bouts mostly involve short bursts of energy, then you have time to recover. I'm sure jogging would help just for the cardio, but sprints would be much more beneficial in that they would get you in shape and also prepare your body more for fencing a bout/series of bouts. But then, I fence saber and was a sprinter in high school, so I may be biased.

-James

your almost exactly correct. Wind sprints, and then push ups are great.

One thing to keep in mind, wind sprints are 2 times more effective if you jog a lot on top of the sprints. you need to do both. not one or the other. they both help each other out.

James, you go to North Western? tell Lauren I said hey

Chris Triplett

GreenDot · 08-11-2003, 02:08 AM

Well, we dont' do too much long jogs. We jog for about 10 or 15 minutes to warm up before we start anything else, but that's about it. We don't just sprint though, we'll do jump rope and various other random activities mixed in with the sprints.

We have two Laurens on the team, and they both fence saber. Rather confusing. Perhaps I'll just give your regards to both, and see which one looks at me funny.

-James

MyraTrue · 08-11-2003, 02:29 AM

I should have clarified that post of mine to say that I don't get wiped out in my bouts if I run (be it a mile or 4) but when I quit running, its all over.

I think I'll try to add some sprints in there. I guess I like it when everything goes into "brainless running for miles" mode- it stops hurting.

Talyn: I'll admit I never really thought much about my consumption habits, but I avoid eating when I fence. I'll drink water like there is no tomorrow, but food is a revolting thought! And yes, I tend to be an agressive fencer. Which is funny, because my best tactic is to be a hand-picker.

But... food?

Thanks all,
Myra

big poppa · 08-11-2003, 08:17 AM

After reading your posts and my experience running iv'e come to this conclusion: a mixture is best . I need a base of at very leastr 2 miles to three miles ( my normal warm up for fencing anyway) then after the base has been set jog 200 meters then sprint 200 meters for about 2 miles

fencingguy · 08-11-2003, 11:17 AM

As a cross country coach, and a successful fencer ( a quick credential drop so I can prove I know what I'm talking about

, and also to point out that I'm more accustomed to distance running than sprinting, so take it all with a grain of salt

) I do not find long distance running to be detrimental to my fencing at all. On of the best ways to work sprints into your routine, and also to help your body get the most out of its workouts is to change up what you're running from day to day, keeping it fresh as it were.

For sprint workouts Fartleks are a great idea, as well as running a set series of intervals with limited rest. However, I would work these in as the focus of your workout every few days in order to get the kind of focus you want, rather than every day at the end of your run. I might do light sprints at the end of a workout, but not if I'm really trying to build power and speed, in that case give it the attention it deserves. Warm up about a mile or so and then do whatever workout you planned. Make sure to cool down and STRETCH when you're done.

Keep in mind that most sprint workouts will qualify as a "hard day" for a distance runner, so use your next day's run as a recovery run to get your strength back up.

Dragonfly · 08-12-2003, 06:53 AM

Hi guys, and especially Big Poppa, I haven't seen you in long time, and I like the avatars lately, they look great.

What kind of running for endurance, I think it's running for distance, rather than time - when you run minimum 5 miles for example, you're going to keep the pace pretty medium, but what you can do is change your stride during a long run; longer steps, for part of the run, short smaller steps for another run; or do some sprinting in difference segments. But running sure does help out fencing.

vegan · 08-12-2003, 12:19 PM

hi all,
Well as a fencer and a cyclist, and all around fitness geek; I'll put in my two cents!
So, i think the running is good for your fencing, but that jeff is correct in saying that running for distance is bad (read that the training for marathon and ultra-marathon and for fencing are very different!), but that you need to have some base miles in you before you start to do any sort of sprint work. For cycling (I like cyclocross- so this is the off season, and I am riding base miles; for that matter for most of us this is the off season for fencing, which is a great time to build cardio endurance!) I am riding about 50-75 miles a week at a mid level pace (say 3 20 mile road sessions, with hills and some sprints at the end, and one off road 15 mile ride with some friends- every week) of about 15-20 mph. This will turn as the season starts into less miles at a much higher pace, and with more people to push me. That said, running base miles about 4, 3 times a week would be about right for now. Depending on when you'd like to peak, start sprinting a lot about a month and a half before, and quit except for recovery runs about 2 weeks before!
Good Luck, please let us know how it goes and what you end up doing to train!
B.
ps. Just passed my personal training certification!!!! (not that it helped all that much!)

RavRita · 08-13-2003, 07:09 PM

I run marathons and endurance relays throughout the year and during my highest mileage weeks, I run trails to add variety and keep my mind active for fencing.

Long distance running is rewarding and helps to build endurance. With the current NAC schedule, you need the endurance to still be fencing at 1am. If you do opt for long distance (30 -40 miles per week), mix up your terrain to keep it interesting.

When you train on trails, you strengthen your ankles and your mind stays active anticipating obstacles.

Come find me at the next tournament and we can go for a run.

MyraTrue · 08-15-2003, 02:01 AM

Thank you all for the input.

Its a lot to think about, but I never really thought to put in sprints. Maybe cause... I SUCK at them (gee.... all the more reason to do them.) I like the trail running idea, as well as the neighborhood runs- I just need to go to the right part of town. I know where there are several dogs that would increase my sprinting speed like nothing else can.

But right now, I just need to get back to running! Its been a week, and while we all debate it, I'm sitting, in the lab, on my rear.

Time for a run... only a few miles.