Changing grips

[npkeith]

To all of you who have been following my long and winding road to ortho grips, thank you.
My russian grip, washer, pommel nut, wrench and die are on their way. I just want to make sure that I make the switch without ruining the thing. This is the list, as I have come up with it in my head:

1) remove pommel and french grip.
2) while keeping bell and pad in place (don't stain the wires!) slide new grip into place.
3) mark tang with tape or marker.
4) remove new grip, still being careful with the wires.
5) mark wires and remove them from socket
6) carefully remove bell and pad from blade/tang, protecting wires.
7) cut tang down (hacksaw, vice, etc.)
8) file off sharp bits on end of tang
9) cut thread with die.
10) replace bell and pad, threading wires back.
11) place new grip, lock washer, and nut, tighten most of the way, fix the angle, tighten the rest of the way.
12) replace wires in socket and tighten
13) win every bout at next club meeting.

Do I have that right? What am I missing, or am I just being paranoid? I'm buying a house, so I have no money to buy a new weapon (or even a new tip and wires for that matter), so if I mess this up, I'll have a very fancy but dry epee for several months, until I can collect enough cans or win the lottery or something.

[neevel]

You've got the process down. You don't need to worry about denoting which wire is A or B going to the socket for an epee-- the scoring box is just looking for a closure across the two, and doesn't care about polarity.

-Dave

[wflaschka]

Hi.
Also -- assess the new grip to make sure it has a big enough notch for the wires. I've had a few grips with a tiny notch, and they sever the wires at the top of the tang (by themselves, or by pressing through the thumbpad). A rat-tail file (or the edge of any file) can fix this.

One other tip. If you're being ultra careful, you can also screw a pommel nut (outside hex works best) down the tang, past where you are going to hacksaw. Then, cut and file. When you're done, you unscrew the pommel -- et voila! the pommel has fixed any threading you may have smushed while cutting and filing.

Good luck!

[CarlKnoch]

Personally I don't use a hack saw. I use bolt cutters and then a quick sweep of a file around the end of the tang, but the process is lined out well enough.


And what a great idea about a nut down the tang before the cut is made so as you remove it the thing rethreads the smushed end of the tang! Excellent!

[picojeff]

Originally posted by wflaschka
One other tip. If you're being ultra careful, you can also screw a pommel nut (outside hex works best) down the tang, past where you are going to hacksaw.

I do this with the die instead of a pommel nut. The die will cut much better threads into the squashed and mangled threads. This isn't worthwhile if there aren't already threads down to where you are cutting, because it takes a long time to make new threads through several inches of hard steel.

I too use a big pair of bolt cutters. It takes 5 seconds instead of 5 minutes. If you plan to do one blade in the next year, it might not be worth buying bolt cutters. If you're doing one every other month, it is worthwhile.

Depending on the length of the tang you are going to leave, you might be able to complete the process without ever removing the bell. I have large german (aka german visconti) handles, I use outside hex and I cut my tangs on the longish side, and I can get my die on without removing the bell, greatly reducing the risk of breaking a wire.

And a final nitpick: in step 10 you failed to list putting the socket back in place before the pad. Don't forget that, you'll be needing it!

[npkeith]

Thanks everyone.

I expect to have to cut new threads, as I don't think the tang is threaded that far down.
I also assume I'll have to fudge the cut in from the mark about 1/4 inch because I'm getting an inside hex nut, so I won't be able to tighten it all the way if the end of the tang is flush with the end of the grip.
someone told me to get outside hex, and for somereason I reversed it. Oh well.
-Keith

[neevel]

Cutting a tang using a hacksaw goes much faster if you use the
right saw blade. With a coarse-tooth, high-speed blade designed for use on hard steel, it'll cut quite quickly.

For using bolt cutters, a helpful tip is to tie a length of string to the cutters, and tie on a crocodile clip (like from a body cord) to the end of the string. Secure the clip to the end of the tang that's going to be removed-- it'll keep it from flying off and hitting something (e.g., your face) when you cut.

-Dave

[Artisan]

Originally posted by npkeith
Thanks everyone.

I expect to have to cut new threads, as I don't think the tang is threaded that far down.
I also assume I'll have to fudge the cut in from the mark about 1/4 inch because I'm getting an inside hex nut, so I won't be able to tighten it all the way if the end of the tang is flush with the end of the grip.
someone told me to get outside hex, and for somereason I reversed it. Oh well.
-Keith

Have you used a die before? If not, be sure to use oil. Cutting oil is best, but anything will do in a pinch, even butter or bacon fat (actually bacon fat is quite good). Also, it will help to grind or file off the corners of the tang if its square where you will be cutting. you want the portion to be threaded to be as close to a 6mm. cylinder as possible... and, you may need to back off the die 1/4 turn for every 2-3 turns down. This breaks off the chips, and reduces the amount of metal the die must push.

If you are just using the die to clean up existing threads, running it upside down (least tapered side first) reduces the chance of cross threading when you start it and making a mess of the whole thing!

[npkeith]

Yes I've used a die before, but it has been a loooong time. Thanks for the reminders.

It seems to me that a dremel tool with a cut-off wheel would also make short work of the tang, assuming you can get it at the right angle. A dremel with a cut-off seems to be the tool of choice for removing old glue from wire grooves too. I'll have to dig mine out and experiment on a few scraps.

[npkeith]

Well, thanks everyone - My epee has a new russian grip,and it is SOOO SWWEEET!
Just a few observations.
1: Yes, you can fake a die holder with a pair of vicegrips, but a die holder would be better.
2: WD40 works well as a cutting oil.
3: tapering the end of the tang will make fitting it into the die so much easier.
4: a dremel tool with a diamond cutoff wheel from Harbour Freight Tools (read: discount, cheapo, made in China) cuts through a tang in about 10 seconds, but it gets really hot near the cut (I still have thread marks burned into the pad of my index finger - Ouch! &!@$@!^)
5: its much better to cut the tang a little too long and have to cut again (which I did) than to cut too short and have to buy a new blade. (As Homer Simpson says: D'oh!)

After reassembly, an ohmmeter stuck in the 2 sockets reads 0 when the tip is depressed, 0 between the bell and the last socket, and infinite resistance between the bell and the first 2 sockets.

I think all is good.
Once again thanks for all your help and tips.

I think my next big project will be rewiring it to a german tip when this french wears out.

[CarlKnoch]

Originally posted by picojeff
If you plan to do one blade in the next year, it might not be worth buying bolt cutters. If you're doing one every other month, it is worthwhile.

Cheap bolt cutters that work are at http://www.homier.com/default.asp?pa...ies.asp?dept=1

Just 3.99 for an 18" pair of cutters and not much more for the 24" cutters.

Mine work just great for this.

Best Regs.