Get away from MY Bout Committee Table!

[CarlKnoch]

Is it normal for there to be a table set up at competitions, and that this table, which is used by the bout committee is considered out of bounds for participants?

I know that many fencers hanging around that table can be a little bit confusing if there are a bunch of them, but in my division they are anal at times about keeping people away from that table. That normal? Also, I've heard someone say that a fencer approaching the table will be black carded. Possible? Is that a fact, or fiction? Should I go to Snopes.com to check that out? lol

[theperfect01]

I've run several tournaments and we've always had a "bout committee table" in which we asked fencers to step away unless there was a concern which warrented the attention of the bout committee.

The reason is simple: they deal with hundreds of crabby fencers for ten hours a day and it's a place where only serious concerns are met.

For instance if a director is inexperienced and has been making terrible calls all day,and has personally mentioned the an incident a year ago where teh competing fencer beat down the director 15-2 and is critiquing the incident and making biased calls, then one should probably approach the bout committee table.

If you are mad because you got yellow carded, there's nothing the bout committee can do to change that an so you should not approach the table.

As to whether you can get black carded, I suppose if they warn you to move away from the table and you proceed to distrub them, they can do anything they want.

[oiuyt]

Well, they should get a spectator warning first, but, yeah, harassing the BC table (which can be accomplished merely by being there and trying to crane one's neck to see what's going on and "hey, why'd I'd get HIM in my pool anyway") could be considered disruptive to the smooth operation of the tournament.

How anal BC's are depends a lot on the temperment of the people running the tournament, how much sleep they got the previous night, what was for breakfast, how many other people have already been chased away from the table, who the person hanging around is, and a host of other factors. It's frequently easiest to just assume a policy keeping the fencers away. In theory fencers should adapt to the policy over time and learn not to harass the BC. Seems not to work very well as most fencers tend to learn "oh, well they just mean the unhelpful people. _I_ know what I'm doing and can help catch errors that they might make."

If your BC's want you away from the table.... stay the *&%@#$ away from the table. It's really NOT that big a deal, they'll let you know who to fence, where, and when once they've finished. You really don't need the 30 seconds advance notice.

-B :)
*Who both works behind BC tables on occasion and hangs around them every chance he gets when he's fencing... but it's okay, I'm one of the helpful fencers :)*

[CarlKnoch]

While I understand that it's stressful to run some tourneys, the one's in our divison are typically not that big, and I don't believe them to be that stressful. Of course, having said that I've never helped. lol.

It is true that it doesn't help to get a few mements head start on what DE bout you have, and all that, so it's really just a moot point. I see that.

Just frustrating when things are going slowly and the bout committee is sitting up at the table talking to friends (who are fencers in the competition) and as soon as someone comes to the table not in that crowd, everyone is shoed away because they're disturbing.

I'm done. Frustration over and thanks!

[jeff]

Carl, offering to help usually is welcome - that's one way to become part of the in-crowd. Offering snacks can work even faster!

[Alpha03]

I have run bout committee before, im also a fencer and a referee. When I am doing bout committee, people learn pretty quick that approaching the table unless some1 is dying is fairly dangerous. In my crusade against stupid people asking stupid questions, i have denied returned deposits, sent people away, and started throwing punches. I also keep the cards handy. So the moral of the story is much like brad said. dont **** with the DT or u get special treatment.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

delays aren't always caused by bout committee. they're often caused by a slow pool, or some other problem. so when you see bout committee talking to their friends, and you walk up, asking "when are DEs starting"--- you're getting into bad territory, as 5 other people have already asked them that in the past 3 minutes, and they're not happy that they're stuck there for another 5 hours before they can go out to eat with their friends themselves.

for one tournament, i answered all the stupid questions- what events weren't registering yet, which were in pools, DEs.... it now occurs to me that a whiteboard could have done the same thing- if you have one of the obvious stupid questions, you just look at the board- oh, the WE is in the round of 16, and ME hasn't registered yet. oh! WS is registering now!

I think a club in my area, RIFAC, used to have (i say used to because i haven't been to an event there since maybe 2002ish) that i think used to have registration times on a whiteboard, i'm not sure if they still do, or if it ever had anything else on it.

this could serve two purposes.... the fencers would know what was going on without asking
and bout committee would have everything in one place, so that the different members know what everyone else is working with, how many directors are being used (aproximately) and if they're just confused and didn't remember what they needed to do next, they could figure it out..

but then you'd run into problems if you forget to erase and rewrite what's going on.

[wasn't this post more nice than the original pointless drivel i was going to post about how people that ask pointless questions are annoying?]

[oiuyt]

MP, you're giving RIFAC too much credit. They listed the scheduled close of registration times and that's it. Not updated "here's where we are now" information, not "here's the anticipated delay in your event" information, just the same stuff that was in the newsletter that everyone received 3 months earlier and in theory told them when and where to show up.

-B :)

[rukovsoft]

totally agree with what s said before about letting the bout committee doing their work in peace.

however, being a member of a bout committee doesn t give you the right to be a jerk.

If everybody was nice, courtous and respectful, like fencers should be (the myth of the gentleman-fencer vanished a long time time ago...but some exceptions are still found) maybe those "get way of my table could be avoided....

well it happened to me...some moron form the connecticut division told me basically to get the F**K out of his table as i was offering my help to direct, and has been a jerk during the whole competition. well, i advise all my friends and students not to go there unless they re forced to (important competition)...this jerk, is famous statewide for his "jerkiness" (don t kno the word, lol)

if he s on this forum, he ll recognize himself. people from new england will easily identify him !!! send me PM if you have guessed.

[oiuyt]

Given that all CT division events (well, with the exception of the 5-College Open, (to be renamed "Pioneer Valley Open" this coming season)) are held at the same club and by the same organizer.... it's not hard to figure out who you mean.

I don't believe he reads/posts here, although at least 1 person from his club does.

-B :)

[CarlKnoch]

Originally posted by jeff
Carl, offering to help usually is welcome - that's one way to become part of the in-crowd. Offering snacks can work even faster!

I'll try the snacks route this weekend at the tourney in my division. Although I've been told that my directing is good enough for local event's, my own standards are higher than that. So Snacks it is!

[ajhunter]

As someone who's run bout committee a lot, I can say that carding someone for bothering the bout committee is an absolute last resort. Even though I may threaten to do it, it would have to be a really extreme situation for me to actually do it. Carl, please don't take that as an invitation to test my limits, though!

Anyway, the two WORST times to bother the bout committee are while the pools are being set up and while the DE is being set up. During those times (and I admit, it might not be obvious WHEN this is occurring), anyone bothering the bout committee is only delaying the start of the pools or DEs.

Another slightly bad time to ask a question is if the person is in the middle of checking the math on a pool sheet.

Anyway, my solution to this problem was to BE a member of the bout committee. I'm not sure if I actually came out ahead on that one, though...

Angie

[ajhunter]

Originally posted by CarlKnoch
I'll try the snacks route this weekend at the tourney in my division. Although I've been told that my directing is good enough for local event's, my own standards are higher than that. So Snacks it is!

Carl, I prefer cheese and crackers ... and cookies ... and chips and ...

[jeff]

Good luck, Carl! Snacks for hungry officials can be a powerful force. Chocolate is especially effective.

I'm also offering snacks this weekend (at the Garden State Games), even though I've been warned that they're going to try to rope me into directing. I think I should get the free official's shirt just for updating the njfencing.org site (which I hope to redesign next month)

[rukovsoft]

well, 5 people PM me...4/5 found who he was...
and most of them agreed wih my statements.
it s too bad people are forced to go there for their division events...

if there was a choice, i m sure most of people would have deserted his club. i know a fencer there, who fences there because he couldn t fins a spot in a new york club....same for fencers, this guy being a jerk with almost everybody should deter fencers from going to his events...
once again, if there were more competition, like in europe, you'd forget quickly about those crappy events.

i must pay my respect to all the division officers who have to seat next to him at division meetings...that must be really challenging to restrain yourself from telling him how dickheads he is.

[Dragonfly]

After a while I've learned to steer clear of bout committees. It's the habit of newcomers to fencing to wander up to the table and "find things".

[Inquartata]

Wow. How have I managed to miss all of you irascible people? In thirty years of fencing I have yet to encounter a snappish person behind a BC table, much less been warned off. And here you folks are discussing cards!

[Zelda]

BC's in Australia are generally fairly laid back. Until they got the ausfencingevents.org website up and going the DT was always will to give you a copy of the pools etc if you asked nicely. I cant say we have ever really been chased away or being told to "get lost" but Aussie fencers know the pools etc will be posted eventually.