Fencing Boot Camp...What would you do?

[corinna2u]

If you were running an 8 week fencing boot camp for fencers that already know the basics...but need to improve their skills...what would you put them through?

What would you consider to be important in their training? Remember this is boot camp; you can put them through anything, but it is supposed to make them a better fencer.

[Dragonfly]

What would I look for as a student is the only way I can reply. I would look for bladework drills. A lot of bladework drills and running opportunities.

[Mo]

Originally posted by corinna2u
If you were running an 8 week fencing boot camp for fencers that already know the basics...but need to improve their skills...what would you put them through?

What would you consider to be important in their training? Remember this is boot camp; you can put them through anything, but it is supposed to make them a better fencer.

8 Weeks is an awfully long time!! Our club has a pre summer national camp and then an advanced training camp later in the summer, usually in August.
They do drills and run track in the morning. They then fence the afternoons using the skills they learned that morning.
Any camp a kid can go to as long as it is for their weapon is very helpful. They are excellent ways to seriously improve.

[corinna2u]

Yes, 8 weeks is a long time...but if you had a group to make ship shape, what would you do?

serious answers, fun answers, crazy answers...

[lfortier]

Work on....EVERYTHING! from the tiny details of technique to working the way up of the bigger stuff. Give everybody personalized private lessons (you have no idea how much one can learn in a 10-15 min lesson!) and do endurance conditioning like cardio/aerobics. Make it challenging,fun, and informative, while not going over everyones heads! Remember, all the little things that coaches overlook/undertrain their students on make all the difference!

[R. Exnicios]

I have to agree that 8 weeks is a bit long.

Training needs to have adequate recovery time. Every training program I've seen has a long break or recovery time after about 10 days.

I went to a 10-day intense camp in Hungary two summers ago. By the 10th day my legs were so sore that I could barely walk.

Lots of conditioning. Balance, speed, endurance. At night when you can't move classroom work.

Jumping, circuit training, footwork and of course fencing, fencing, fencing!

Cheers

[Queen of Hearts]

Originally posted by lfortier
Work on....EVERYTHING!!

Yes, in that amount of time you should be able to....

[Craig]

Originally posted by corinna2u
If you were running an 8 week fencing boot camp for fencers that already know the basics...but need to improve their skills...what would you put them through?

What would you consider to be important in their training? Remember this is boot camp; you can put them through anything, but it is supposed to make them a better fencer.

Make them run, make them do footwork, make them do strip suicides.

You should structure the practices so that you have your hard/endurance/conditioning stuff first, and then move on to the technique portions (blade drills) and then end the day with situational bouting.

So:

First part: Warm up, stretch. Then 2 mile run and situps/pushups/etc.

Next: Minor stretch and water break. Followed by conditioning footwork. Lots of changes in direction, very high speed, high intensity for 30sec - 1min bursts. (You can also work in strip suicides or any running that involves lots of directional changes)

Blade drills - Pick one concept for the day and work on it.

Situational bouting - Can do anything from "Fencer on the right is up 4-3 with 1 minute left" to "fencer on the left cannot score with an attack. fencer on the right cannot score if they take the blade" and have some situations be "secret".

End with a few minutes of unstructured bouting.

[Daylight]

A suggestion that might be of interest, in particular for such a long course (8 weeks) would be the use of videotaping.

Conditioning builds up the body, drills help individuals work on their skills and bouting allows for the application of what is learned. Allowing an individual's bouts to be videotaped and then review their own fencing lets them see for themsevles some of the "problem" areas. I have always likened that to assisting in learning to self-critique.

Perhaps 2 tapings? One early in the session and one towards the end? Granted, that sort of individualized attention can be difficult depending on the number of attendees but I have found that for the perceptive fencer it allows them to self-critique better and gives the coach concrete illustrations to help develop more individualized improvement ideas for their "kids."

It was just a thought. Good luck!

[Inquartata]

Boot camp?

You're going to make them fence in boots?!

[JEC]

Originally posted by Inquartata
You're going to make them fence in boots?!

they need to build up stamina

[Inquartata]

Or perhaps stamp-in-a...

[Sarah]

LOL

[retardedspleen]

I can answer this seriously, in detail, but first, how many hours a day would they be working? cause that can make a big difference.

Chris T.

[corinna2u]

The hours per day would depend on the program, of course. Sounds like a non answer, I know.

Alot of fencing camps last but half a day...I think a 'boot camp' would last twice as long...

You pick the hours. You pick the agony.

Assume that the fencers have access to the equipment they could need:a strip, a full gym, a pool, running paths, a basketball court, tennis court, racquetball court, pilates mats, bounding equipment, medicine balls, stability balls, a mirrored wall, nutritional meals, hot showers, and comfortable beds...sounds more like a resort! Hmmm, just missing the girls in skimpy clothing...

[vegan]

Where Do I SIGN UP??

As for Ideas, I would start with 2 3-4hr sessions a day, with perhaps open fencing at night. First, Run, serious soccer or basketball, cardio circuts- min 1.5 hrs. Next footwork (after a break and stretching), also about and hr min. Then something fun, and a little less physical- floor hockey, glove ball (like ultimate frisbee with a glove and indoors). Cool Down, break for an hour or so. Start up second session with warm up and str. training (weights if available). 1Hr. Then tactical situations or technical drills of some sort in pairs. about 1.5 hrs. Then some sort of free bouting to finish, about an hour- pools, team, 2 min sprint bouts, whatever you can think of !!! you'll need a lot of variation!.
The entire time, people should be being called out for lessons and meetings with coaches. This time should be used to plan for the upcoming year of compeating, including a full training plan, all of the intended comps, how much fencing during a week, month, etc. etc.
At least once a week, the night time session should be required, and should be some sort of lecture with a qualified person to inform fencers as to how to do something related to fencing- how to ref, eat, lift weights, stretch, think on the strip, and so on.
Finally the Night time session should be for people to fence, not to be required but encouraged a great deal, and should be several hours later.
The Boot campers should also have Massages, armoring services, nutritionists, sports psyc, and most certainly trainers available (both medical,a and physical).
Well- damn thats some list . . . I hope it helps-
And again-
Where Do I Sign UP?
Cheers,
B.

[Dragonfly]

8 week boot camp. It would be great to help organize one for our local area. If we had 50 people sign up for 8 weeks, they could just drive in from their home to sign in for seminars each day. Folks could just sign up for the special offering of that particular week.

1. Week I: endurance activites such as running. The participants meet together at designated areas on a campus or a park and learn how to run or jog. The goal in week one is to run two miles in 30 minutes or less [depending on age]. Students will learn how to make a running log book. Students now can incorporate running into their fencing schedule from now on.

2. Week II: strengthening activites such as weight training. Students will meet each day in a designated area to learn how to develop total body strength.

3. Week III: Footwork - the Foundation of fencing. Footwork drills for the entire week in a gym. Beginning with simple advance and retreats on a strip to compound footwork drills.

4. Week IV: Bladework - the Middle Game of fencing. Students will team up with partners to learn the various bladework used in fencing.

5. Week V: Nutrition and Hydration. Students will have an opportunity to hear lectures given by local Registered Dietetians and Sports Medicine figures on the current theories surrounding physical activities and food/calories/and hydration. Students will break up into groups and bout.

6. Week VI: Fencing Videos: Local and Guest Coaches will drill students after video presentations for week VI.
Students will have an opportunity to watch Videos of Important fencing matches. Students will be led through the motions of an important bout in order to realize the physical actions of the elite fencer.

7. Week VII: Introduction to Keeping Score, Rules for Weapons and bouting. Students will learn the correct methodology of keeping score for a bout, marking a score pad and tabulating a round robbin, and designating the order of the participants in a round robin. Students will receive lectures from coaches and guest speakers on the rules of foil; rules of epee; and rules of saber in play. Students will break into groups and bout.

8. Week VIII: Bringing it all Together - Review of the Camp. Students will participate in fencing for the entire week, followed by discussion of the bouts, the techniques and results. Workshop in weapons repairs will be offered in the afternoons, students should bring several broken weapons.

That was my dream 8 week boot camp. In reality, I'm rolling out of bed at mid-afternoon, throw my sneakers on and run half-heartedly around the neighborhood bringing cheer to all, and drag myself to fencing after a two week absence.

[retardedspleen]

ok, im gunna base this twords people from the ages of 13-26.

lets say were going from 9am-7pm (good ol 10 hours )


in the first week as craig said before, its gunna start with mostly endurence, after this everything will seem easier (or harder, depends on how athletic they are)


we arrive at our club (salle whatever you wish to call it) gunna start off with running 1 mile, not hard, not too fast. after the mile the legs are warmed up. now we will do Yoga, simply for stretching. (all this within 30 minutes) start running once more, this time we're goen for 8 miles. running hard, but making sure your not 100% worn out once its over. we've run our 8 miles. 10 minute break. now soccer, good ol 20 minutes of soccer. after this, we start our footwork, this consists of a full set of sabre style footwork (cause its hard, fast, and fun) on both left, and right footed. this will take about an hour. thats 2 1/2 hours compleated so far. 15 minutes for water/cool down. Now for Wind Sprints. this will take about 45 minutes, because we are gunna be going FULL out. Glove and sabre are now required, we have some punching bags for martial arts (that you fill with water, and stand on the floor, cept they arnt filled with water, for easier movement.) about 1 hour on these, advance lung, lung jump lung and so on (keep in mind theres only gunna be a few of these, so you will have a line behind you, you go, then the person behind get to go, and your at the back of the line untill its your turn again)

NOW! Lunch. I guess, because im feeling nice today, the "boot camp" will provide lunch, its from the local delli. or something semi Healthy, we have salad type stuff, with bread and all the fixngs of a healthy sandwich. lunch is about 1 hour, so nows its what? 2pm? i dunno somewhere around there.

After lunch, its time for soccer, this is to just get back warmed up. 30 minutes of soccer. qucik 30 minutes of warm up foot work, time to put some gear on. grab a partner, its time to start some distance games (im not gunna explain this cause its more explaining than i wanna do ) this takes about 30 minutes. time for what we call Head hunter, no blade contact, only target is head. 15 minutes of this, after this, 15 minutes of middle game bouting, once compleated 30 minutes normal bouting, every 5 minutes everybody take one step to the left (this gives you a new partner) ok its now 4:30...we have 2 and a half hours left, 15 minute break, for water and such. pep talk from the coach, what he wants to see, ect ect... thats another 15. its now 5pm.

you are assigned to a pool (this should be a med, to larg pool) 15 touch bouts with everybody in your pool, record all scores, self directed. this (for sabre) shouldnt take too long, no longer than 1 hour (but for fun, lets say this is 1 hour) after pools, we will set up DE's for the results of the pools. DE's will take (they damn well better take no less than 1 hour.) once DE's are done, with the help of a white board, we will write down what place everybody is in. this is now our Ladder. wich will be used in all future aspects of the camp. in order to obtain a higher position, you can challenge somebody as many as 2 places above you. you then fence that person in a 100 touch bout. (prolly self reffereed, or if a person is free, grab them to refferee, untill they have to fence)



That was day one. The entire first week will be mostly like this, except on the third day instead of 8 miles, either 10 miles, or 8 miles on a beach, in the sand. And, instead of always soccer, try basketball, or hand ball. anything thing that gets the body moven real good.

Second week, still the same type of running. maybe a little less. a lot more bouting though, start mixen stuff up, do best 2 outa three 30 touch bouts for pools. anything that makes sense on an endurence scale, and seems almost crazy to do on a normal day a good, and hard type of bout is; fence to a 15 touch bout, equaly matched people, but, fence so that when you win, the score is 15-0. 15-1 is impossible, if you score 1, then the score is 1-0 if you score another, the score is 2-0 but if the oponet scores, the score is now 1-0 (still your favor) understand? hope so. this can take FOREVER and a lot of times comes down to the person that has the best endurence (hence the reason theres already so much cardio) it seems a lot of people lose in tournaments is because they get tired, due to high elevation, or just not enough Stamina, mental or physical. the program i just stated will help all of those problems, if not eliminate them compleatly.


questions? want more detail on the next weeks? if you do, i suppose i can write out a plane for all 8 weeks. but if not, thats cool to


Chris Triplett

[corinna2u]

Thanks all...

There is a little more to this than it being a fun question. Our two fencers can not make it to a camp this year. There aren't any that are close enough...and we just can't afford the camp fees and hotel...blah, blah, blah. Anyway, they would like to come up with a plan for the 8 weeks after Nationals that clubs are on their summer schedule. We want to know what would someone do if they really ran an 8 week 'boot camp', so that we can adapt it.

Everything that you have given so far, they can do...And for all that respond, after the 8 weeks, I will post what they actually did...and what difference it made in their fencing. These guys are serious about their fencing, so I think you will be surprised at how they will push themselves on their own. They have recently been taught how to lead a drill for the other...and have been given specific drills to work on for the summer, but they want to do more.

Chris T...I see, from all, that conditioning is a big focus in the beginning...what would change though? That 'shift' in focus from week to week...what would it be? I am very interested in what else you would plan, and I do appreciate the detail. If you can manage the time...I would like to see what you would do for the other weeks.

Thanks.

[retardedspleen]

the second and third week would be mostly the same, but id make the third week a lot harder, instead of 8 miles, we'd run 13.


after the third week you wanna start to focus more on fencing, just basic fast fencing, this is to get there head into it more. Id start putting conditions on what they could do, give them rewards for certain touches, like lets say, you get 2 points if you get a counter parry repost. this sounds hard to do at any point in time, but wait....it can also be a second intention attack depending on how you think of it, you hit the other persons guard, the other person reposts, (most people repost to head) and you take the counter repost. change things up, make them fence with the other hand. stuff like that, try and get them out of what they are used to doing, this will spark new creativity. if your watching over them, id write down what you think they are doing right and wrong, and what you want to know to them, hell have them write down every week what they think, what they want to know and what they think they need work with.


on the 4th week, mostly fencing, but still at least 6 miles of running each day (also i didnt note this before, it slipped my mind, but pushups, situps all of those are really good for fencing, you can do pyrimids 10 pushups, 10 situps, 9pushups 9 sitsups ect ect) the 4th week is as i said creative fencing.


5th week mostly same thing as the 4th creative fencing, a lot of drills, and a lot of bouting. bouting being the main deal here. give conditions like; you can only hit the right shoulder, if you hit the head, you lose a point, and go to 20. just anything to mix it up, most people make a big mistake of always cutting to the hand....this isnt a good thing to hit sometimes, but usualy people just get into the mindset of "its the closest so its the easiest" wich is not always true. do a lot of chase down attacks, do gauntlet drills, hell do every and all drills you ever did, or thought of. you've got weeks of time, fill it up.

6th week, nothing but bouting, i wouldnt do any drills besides maybe a basic warm up drill. to begin with (just regurlar cuts) just to get your head into it for the day. run tournaments (provided you have enough people) teach them how the seeding and bout set ups work, its good knowledge to have. in case your at a NAC and you wonder why you are where you are. or if they made a mistake seeding you. bouting being the key here id make it harder than hell for them. 100 touch bouts, or one person has to get to 100 and the other has to get to 70. make it offset so the other person has to work harder (and he will too if he wants to win) if they're really even do 30 touche bouts where they have to win 30-0 as i said in my last post "15-1 is impossible, if you score 1, then the score is 1-0 if you score another, the score is 2-0 but if the oponet scores, the score is now 1-0 (still your favor) " that format takes extreamly long (longer than you all would think) and is very very difficult, and exausting. it helps A LOT for tournaments, because you train yourself how to win bouts 5-0, or 15-0 it helped me quite a bit.


7th week, virtuly no fencing. this will be the hardest week of all of them, this is where the kids have been going for 6 weeks non stop. this is to see how well they retained all of the conditioning. id start out with a quick 4 mile jog. come back stretch. get water, and if possible go to a beach and run for 10 miles, if there is no beach then run for 15. once this is done come back to the salle/club 200 lung, 200 adv lund, 200 jump lung, 200 jump adv lung. 200 jumpback jumpforward adv lung. After each 200 they can preform a pyrimid set of 15 push up, sit ups. each pryimid is a total of 120 (i think im just doing that in my head) this means once all is done they have just done 600 push ups and sit ups. also after every two 200 id give them 5 minutes (no more than 5) for water. once all is done. WIND SPRINTS!! just for fun. when i did them i had 600 feet of running space. so you can change what i say according to how much space you have. normal wind srpints, but in a pryimid up to 16 after each sprint 10 push ups/sit ups id split these up so after 1 sprint you do push ups, and the next sprint you do sit ups (by after each i dont mean every run to the other wall, but every number compleated on the list of 16. make sense? hope so) once done you should be close to lunch, give them 2 hours at least for lunch, they're gunna be worn to hell. id fence for only the last hour and a half of the day. and make this bouting very long very fast hard bouting. or at least tell them they need to, they wont, they cant, but they will try wich is what you want out of them. moreover DO NOT TELL THEM THIS IS THE PLAN FOR THE WEEK. telling them is a bad idea, bringing it out of nowhere is much better as that they wont be dredding it the whole other 5 weeks. also in fencing, tournments you never know who you will get who might run you for a long time when your tired. so this is good practice


8th week/finale week this is the cool down week. take it easy, id cut the days down to 6 hours, maybe 5. your pretty much done most of what you needed to do before hand. also dont tell them the days will be shorter. just let them out earlie, this will make them feel good easy simple bouting, not much drills but a little to start of course. try to keep things all relaxed, otherwise they may become a little burnt out on it.


after the 8th week, id have them write up a sort of essay on what they thought of all the whole thing. id write one yourself (im guessing your the coach) about what you thought about there proformance. and then id exchange notes. just to see what everybody thought. that way you can in the future tweak the "boot camp"


I eventuly had more to say, but im running short on time, and i forget what it was i wanted to add, if i remember it i'll either add another post, or just edit this one (prolly add one more)

hope it all makes sense


Chris Triplett