Italian vs. French school

[WoodsideDr]

Just wondering what opinions you all hold on the advantages/disadvantages of one vs. the other. Does either have any appreciable advantage?

[WoodsideDr]

Oops. Did I specify foil? I meant to specify foil? I didn't. My bad.

[edew]

Is there even a competitive Italian school? The French school is alive and well among various non-Russian school clubs in the Bay Area. Italian school? In this country? In the world?

I think the way the Italians fence may be considered as a french+russian mixed with the usual gusto and emotion of the ol' Romantic (capital "R").

[Dragonfly]

I ususally ask the coach what style or school they like to follow, most of the time they say french, the formal Italian training has most probably been lost, but some aspects have been preserved.

However! on the bright side.....it's still there in the spirit, those wonderful wonderful Italian people, what can I say, I am lost in their rapture!

excusa, I become emotional.

[Foilboy]

Well, I know two people who actually fence (yes in tourneys) with an italian foil, and lead a very physical style (a major characteristic of the Italian camp). I wasn't even sure Italian foils were still legal, but they are sure enough. In my opinion, French is the only way to go. It is all about point control and precise, quick, intelligent movements. Can someone explain the definition of Russian style?

[scarphe]

In the minority I feel the italian school is better than the french. But I was origignally trained in the southern italian style,. so I developed the ability for hard hits. The French I would say iis Graceful compared to a hardcored southern style. But since i have learned the french methodology. I would say that the northern italain school is the best, at least for me, for it has Grace As wall the Hardnness of the southern take on fencing.

Also in responce to edew the italian school is still surviving particuraly well in some regions of Germany, Bit this is the northern italalian school. Besides my original coach, I have only been to one salle in rural sicily where I have seen the southern style still being taught. Althpught the school ios out of the limelight It is still alive.
scarphe

[a517dogg]

russian style (for epee) is with your shoulders kind of turned, absence of blade with the hand a little back, strong beats, flicks, and fleches. Usually they like to have the blade in whatever they do. Straight attacks and drawing a counterattack to parry riposte are typical actions.

[a517dogg]

by shoulders turned i meant squared to face the opponent

[jeff]

WoodsideDr, don't worry about it!

The differences between the classic French and Italian styles have all but disappeared, blended together as parts of the modern international style. While there are still schools teaching one or the other exclusively (in the US, there's William Gaugler's program in San Jose that's Italian style), most fencing today has aspects of both.

To distinguish between the two: Italian foil is typified by attacks from longer distance (balestra lunge, advance lunge) than French, with more and stronger takings of the blade. This was aided by the Italian handle, which permits stronger grips and harder beats. French foil (obviously) used shorter distance and more deceives, and more phrases without taking the blade. A beat-disengage with a balestra lunge would be a very typical Italian style attack, while a more French flavor would be a double disengage through a counter parry.

These are stereotypes, not rules: French foilists also do beats, binds, etc, and Italian foilists do disengages. There are also technical differences, for example, parry 4 in Italian style has fingernails down, thumb turned sideways towards the blade contact, while French 4 has fingernails up and thumb opposite. A French stylist would describe the Italian 4 (quarte) as really being 5 (quinte). It's not really about the grip either: almost nobody uses Italian grip anymore, and French grip has declined too, with most people using pistol grips.

Modern fencing combines aspects from both schools, combined with what I would call the Russian influence starting from the 1960s: very athletic, ballistic fencing with fast footwork and simple blade actions.

[WoodsideDr]

Jeff:

That's one of the clearest explanations I've heard. I appreciate the insight.

[jeff]

Glad to help! Hey, at least some topics on the board should involve fencing, eh?

[Dragonfly]

I also thank you, I felt a little sick after reading scarfe's post, it's like there's a fight going on over someone or something, and I wish they'd take to somewhere else so we can study fencing in fencing101.com.

[SoonerBJJ]

Thanks Jeff, good post.

[Dragonfly]

What the international coaches used to want to bring about, the is the long lunge, which if done correctly would have to start from the engarde line, advancing arm extended into an advance lunge attack with a straight arm thrust. This is classic fencing, I think it does work and has an advantage over some of the other stuff, but, needs to be blended in with other techniques and methods which is considered modern fencing. I had to relearn the long lunge, as I used to try to use my footwork to creep in on the opponent and snap the foil into the chest without them seeing it using feints and avoiding blade contact.