vent frustration with USFA web site

[drayke]

What is your number one frustration with the USFA web site?

Mine: Outdated information. (By as much as a couple years even!)

[KBayDog]

The fact that I pay $40 a year for it! I do not ask for much - I can deal with the paper membership cards and slower-than-molasses-in-January mailings, but can I please have a decent website?

I am sure many others will describe the site's deficiencies...

It speaks volumes for the legitimacy of USFA. $40 x thousands of members, and we cannot get a quality website, promotion, advertisement, etc.

Okay, I strayed off-topic...sorry...

[wflaschka]

Horrblendously ugly functionality and layout. Frames complicate linking. Bad organization, no apparent attempt to share all the results, ranking and calendar data they hold in trust for us. No online membership applications or renewal application.

[qatet]

Maybe this is the wrong thread for this post, since there's no venting or frustration involved!

I would love to have on-line tourney registration, but can live without it. Having run my team's website for a couple years (including after graduation!) and gotten nasty emails from little old grannies about not getting the results up DURING the meet, I'm pretty low-key about what I expect from a volunteer website. And for a measly $40 a year, no, I don't expect a lot. That's dues for one meet!

[Peach]

I really like the USFA web site myself. $40 a year is low considering I get much more out of those dues than any of the other organizations I belong to, some of which cost more. And I echo quatet's remark--I have my own website which is just for the subjects I teach, so I am impressed by the way the USFA site is maintained.

[Faggot the Hutt]

I agree with Peach. Considering what is available, that anyone off-site can coordinate with the USFA, despite his own obligations is an accomplishment. I think in this case, it would be advisable to offer helpful suggestion. What the USFA site needs is a redesign. Online membership apps can come later.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally posted by Faggot the Hutt
I agree with Peach. Considering what is available, that anyone off-site can coordinate with the USFA, despite his own obligations is an accomplishment. I think in this case, it would be advisable to offer helpful suggestion. What the USFA site needs is a redesign. Online membership apps can come later.

i hate to go off topic as much as the average trolll..

but is it me or did f the hutt just add to a topic contructively???

weird....

i'm sure that we know enough compu geeks enough to fix all of this.... more volunteers? contest to design best new usfa website with your name somewhere special, and maybe a bunch of event waivers? i'm sure that someone can come up with a SOLUTION....

[magma]

okay, let's stay on the subject; it may make someone think you want to talk with them about the subject or something related and that simply would NOT be good!!! [said the Queen of Hearts], the USFA web-site is okay, but it's difficult to navigate. It could use a little spruce up on the design; it's a little red/white/and blueish. And they should make some kind of effort to select official brands for example or include several vendors or other materials that they endorse for fencers. They could also use a link for membership dues to be paid on-line, and we should also be able to register for Nationals and other events and pay for them on-line as well. Eventually, it would be great to have more fencing articles but to do that would require about 10 full time staff people just to work on the site in an office. Maybe they could get a few of the classified fencers to write an article quarterly for the web-site and load it up from their home?

[KBayDog]

I hate to be redundant, but where are our dues going? I certainly appreciate the work of the "unpaid volunteer who has a job and a personal life," and this is in no way intended to undermine his work.

The mission of the USFA:
"The mission of the USFA is to develop fencers to achieve international success and to administer and promote the sport in the USA."

For our National Governing Body to have a part-time volunteer running its website is unprofessional, and does little to promote the sport in the USA. Promotion and Information go hand-in-hand; members and non-members need to be informed!

Numerous postings of late have tried to deal with the expansion of our sport, and the one thing we seemed to agree on was that we need more fencers if we are to grow. While this is true, we need to make sure our current members are on the piste, and not mowing the lawn come tourney day...

Somewhere in the $615,560 (an estimate, based on $40 per person x 15389 members - 2001 numbers; the most recent available on the USFA site. I apologize if my estimate is way off...), plus sponsorship, plus USOC money, there must exist some funding for a decent site.

Again, do not crucify me on the funding estimates; I am just a concerned member, and have no access to USFA's budget.

If funding is indeed a problem, are their no interns in the Colorado Springs area who could head this up? A lot of college kids are quite tech-savvy; I am sure there are at least a handful who would jump at the chance to be a webmaster, even at the unpaid intern level.

In order to stay competitive in the modern world, we need to start implementing those "luxuries": on-line registration, on-line dues payment, speedy result posting (if not live!), etc. I love our sport, and I do not want us to fall further behind in the sporting world.

[qatet]

But at the moment we do have a website that is at least fairly complete. And while we can all talk about moving the site to some other new tech-savvy person, isn't it better to know that at least the site _will_ be updated within a week or so, rather than perhaps having a stretch of a year or two, like after I stopped doing my team's site? I know, the USFA is a bigger organization than my college team, but still, continuity is a good thing.

[KBayDog]

qatet,

I cannot and will not argue with you there; their current site is good, and much better than anything I could hope to do myself (unless you can make websites with a #2 pencil...)

I am just not a fan of complacency. Maybe it is just my personality - I never "arrive" with anything I do. No matter how good something is, I am not happy unless I am tweaking it.

(That could also explain my past trouble with women... My current belle is good-to-go; I am working on my attitude adjustment, because they just do not get any better than her! )

[wflaschka]

I realize how a website can be daunting to people, especially if they've never built one. But it's not that hard.

Steps towards making a new USFA site:

- Hire designer to make nice website template
- Buy DreamWeaver
- Train staffer to work DreamWeaver
- Put content into templates.
- Click DreamWeaver "upload" button
- Done
- Repeat daily or weekly

The site isn't doing anything fancy now. It's all static text, or should be.

For online membership application and renewal, charging cards:

- Outsource to eRSVP.com or 123SignUp.com. Both have powerful association tools. Done in a week.

For online tournament registrations, charging cards:

- Outsource to an event registration company like eRSVP.com or bthere.com. Done in a day, for eRSVP. (I'm affiliated with eRSVP; we pitched the USFA, they said they were interested; that was 3+ years ago.)

The USFA's problem is probably that it has a lot of legacy systems running... e.g., an ancient ranking database which is critical to operations but expensive to upgrade. If the USFA can find a way to modernize its online presence, it will save money and make more people happy.

[thyme_daniels]

ah yes...my number one frustration is the fact that one cannot register for tournaments online. how stupid. one or two fax lines do not cut it; we must be able to type in our credit cards. there has got to be a way!

[Dee EffEll]

Number one peeve: not updated frequently enough. For insance, today is 6/8. The last "news" was posted on 5/27. That "news" was the event times at nationals. Important enough, but hardly news. The big events (div2,div3) events will be at 7am.

The next "news" item was 5/23 with bios of NY world cup competitors. Great. I wish them good luck, and hope that all do well, since US results in international "stuff" brings with it the possibility some international athletes will come to the US to seek out those good fencers and their coaches. But maybe, just maybe, the bios aren't "news." On the site, sure. News, maybe not.

The next item is point standings. This was posted on May 23. Oddly, the document inside says the point standings were updated 6/4. In the past it has taken at least a week after a competition to get the point standings updated. Seems a little long. Fairly, this is not a peeve of the web site per se, but it seems like the points list is important - I think it is used for seeding competitons, so it is important to have it accurate and timely.

The next "news" item down is a press release of Keith Smart winning a gold medal. News indeed! But a month ago.

Below that is the list of auto qualifiers for US Nationals. This was posted 5/12. 10 days later was the close of registration (5/22.) News?

It seems like the rest of the site is mostly for folks new to fencing. It is mostly like a gigantic yellow pages(tm) ad. Fairly, most web sites these days are like this - a place for newcomers to get information. But really, how many newcomers to the sport of fencing come via the web page? "ooohhh that fencing the new new Bond movie looked cool! I'm going to the web to find a fencing place, and a list of vendors to buy those cool white uniforms from!" Maybe.

The agendas and minutes *are* pretty interesting. This is where you find out what the USFA is doing with all that dues money. It is all in .pdf format, is unsearchable, and isn't indexed. I can't think of a better way to make sure no one reads this (other than to not post it.) At least it is here, and yes, doing clerical typing is tedious and thankless. But still, isn't this important information? Isn't this where we would read about next years NAC schedule, rule changes, director incentives, regional youth circuit planning?

Competitons are listed, and this is one of the best parts of the site. Dates and places are posted well in advance. We need more of this. It makes me chuckle though, when I see the boilerplate templates used: the "transportation" part under the Summer Nationals is still blank for both Airport and hotel-venue. I'm guessing it will stay that way. Be nice if that section said that the venue hotel at Arlington (for instance) was a 100 foot walk to the venue.


Weapons programs are listed. I'm guessing that if you are eligible for this, you know quite a bit about it already. I fence epee, so I clicked on Men's Epee. Last update there was April 17. *shrug*

Committee web sites are linked. Didn't even know there was a fencing officals commission. I suppose they have employees that train officials?


Another link takes me to a perent's guide to fencing, written in October 2002. Not such a bad document, and has some interesting information in it. Remember, something doesn't have to be new to be sueful. Read a great book on "the Inner Game of Tennis." It was written in 1974, and gave me good insight into sport psychology I can use in fencing. But as to this parents' guide, how would a parent know to look under "committe websites" to find it?

I'm also a veteran fencer. A mouse click on the veteran link takes me to "news" dated Jan 6. I do think it is Jan. 6, 2003, but not sure. Next committee meeting will be in Columbus, December 6-8. But Nationals will be June 27 (sic) - July 6, 2003.

The US Fencing Coaches Association section looks good and up to date. I think the coaches probably can use this a lot.

The media section is interesting. There's this: "Watch for the January/February issue of Sports Illustrated for Women. The calendar section will post US Fencing's competition schedule along with other sports, including a blurb about Andrea Ament" OK, maybe I picked a bad example, but I thought I'd try to see if I could find this article online, and demonstrate a link to it would be useful, but I found this note on their web site instead: " It is with especially deep sadness that we tell you the bad news: The December 2002 issue will be Sports Illustrated Women's last. These are tough times for a new magazine, and sometimes even loyal readers aren't enough to make the numbers add up. We thank you for visiting our Web site and invite you to read the parting column of SI Women's managing editor by clicking here." So did that article ever run? Again, *shrug*

Proprintwear is well represented.

We have a list of sponsors. I see a link to United Airlines, a bankrupt corporation. I think I heard USFA gets discounts from them. I never have. McDonald's apparently sponsors the USFA. I do not see a link to sport's nutrition on the USFA site.

There is a link to the Canadian Fencing Federation. The CFF has a *cool* logo!

Through a US anti-doping link, I found a document on doping guidelines. OK, I've been wared. Caffeine is on the list at 12 micrograms per millilitre. So when the attendant on a UAL flight asks, no coffee for me, and no stopping in McDonald's for a coke. Please tell me the irony isn't lost on everyone but me.

I see no real reason why the USFA cannot use askfred.net to register for national tournaments. We can sign a release at the beginning of the season, and mail it in if they really insist on an orginal signature. Or just sign the thing when you get there, with the notification that authorizing the payment online represents an acceptance that you *will* sign the release (and here is an electonic copy online.)

What do you want the wen site to do? I look to the USFA to provide me an opportunity to fence in national events. All I ask for is timely notice of when and where. And oh, maybe how everyone did afterwards.

For everything else, I look to fencing101.com

[Peach]

I don't know too many other sites where I can get this much information. I can find out where I am on the points list, and how I finished in previous years; I can plan my schedule for the next year and check my past results; I can read the operations manual and the rule book; I can download entry forms, membership forms, and tournament forms; I can find links to fencing organizations around the country.

I agree with FTH that better design would go a long way. This site just growed, and it looks like it. It needs clearer, simpler design on the main page: there are too many categories on the table of contents, and they are often not clear; the logo is crude; the Proprintwear stuff, though the merchandise is great, is not presented well (the web design for Proprintwear looks like a proprietary design belonging to some other company, vaguely altered). The USFA also needs a rethinking of the site design so any page can be reached in a few clicks.

The veterans page (mentioned in another post) is not maintained by the USFA volunteer, BTW; it is an even more rock-bottom effort by a volunteer friend of someone on the Veterans Committee, which is also a volunteer outfit with no power and no money.

And the FOC is volunteer as well. There aren't any "staffers" training referees.

If the $600,000 approximate number mentioned earlier were valid, that would pay for rent, fax machines, copiers, telephones, computers, and a small number of employees. That's peanuts. The USFA is a shoestring operation.

[MikeHarm]

My gripes would also be no online registration for tournies and signing up for membership.

[Agent_V]

Originally posted by Dee EffEll
Through a US anti-doping link, I found a document on doping guidelines. OK, I've been wared. Caffeine is on the list at 12 micrograms per millilitre. So when the attendant on a UAL flight asks, no coffee for me, and no stopping in McDonald's for a coke. Please tell me the irony isn't lost on everyone but me.

Well, 12 mg per mL means 12 g/L, which is (heard from a doctor second hand) enough that you would have trouble holding your weapon from the jitteryness, let alone fencing.

But about the USfencing website, you might notice if you read the FAQ they have up there, that usfencing.com is maintained by a volunteer (David Sapery). The USFA is damned lucky to have an almost free and decent website. If you want professional layout with real-time updates and online reg and membership forms, be prepared to add a few bucks to the $40 we already pay each year...

-Alexander

[Dee EffEll]

Originally posted by Agent_V
Well, 12 mg per mL means 12 g/L, which is (heard from a doctor second hand) enough that you would have trouble holding your weapon from the jitteryness, let alone fencing.

The document says 12 micrograms/millilitre. I think a microgram is less than a milligram (mg). But then, I have my epees set to 750g. I can't remember if this is right, or if I should set them to .750 kilograms.

As to the volunteer maintaining the web site, I appreciate his service. I am glad he maintains the web site, and suspect many of the problems with the site are not of his doing or are beyond his control. As the disclaimer says, the web site may be discontinued at any time. But think about that: the entire USFA could be discontuned at anytime too.

For the record: I appreciate all the USFA does - I have seen how hard the tournament committee works at national events, and no one at the USFA has ever done anything but make me welcome to the sport. I get my $40/yr worth.

But fencing101.com is free.

[Agent_V]

Originally posted by Dee EffEll
The document says 12 micrograms/millilitre. I think a microgram is less than a milligram (mg). But then, I have my epees set to 750g. I can't remember if this is right, or if I should set them to .750 kilograms.

DUH!!! *smacks head with keyboard*
microgram = 1 millionth of a gram, not a thousandth...
please excuse this poor retard.

-Alexander

[Event Horizon]

The site is ok. I hardly visit the site anymore unless I'm really bored. For the fencers who are in the top echelon of fencing, the site is possibly somewhat benificial for them. It seems like for the rest of us non DivI/IA/elite fencers, we don't matter much. It even shows in their magazine too. For any new updates/info/tips/etc., I come to fencing.net. To me, this site represents the organization as a whole more than the official site.