Thinking & Fencing

[Artisan]

Ok...to maybe get a discussion going...in the advice to beginners
department:

What do you try think about:
a) Before a competition
b) Before a bout
c) After last touch

and... what do you actually end up thinking about, in the midst of a competition bout.

To a beginner, fencing seems a bit like juggling (which I can't do AT
ALL!) There are many balls to be kept in the air at once, both
physically and mentally. Its very hard to focus on one element enough
to do something with it cognitively without letting the others
slip... ahh, just got hit.

For example: I'd say the "one ball in the air list" is: DISTANCE

So, what is the two balls in the air list, the three balls, four,
five, etc....? (essentially, the ordered list of priorities- I
know... its not linear - somethings HAVE to happen concurrently!)
As one gains experience, I assume (hope?) more stuff
becomes "autopilot" freeing up the noggin to focus on strategy and
tactics.

What do you think?

[wflaschka]

I have found myself beating superior fencers, just because of my mindstate. Either by accident, or randomly over a long fencing career, I have found a reliable mental state when on strip. A good mental state preserves performance when, say, an opponent runs 5 touches in a row, or when you're down 4-1 in a 5 touch bout.

It used to occur to me, during a bout, that I might lose. Recently, I was down 14-11 in a final, and I didn't realize until after that I never imagined that I could lose (I didn't). And, at the same time, I was working mental mojo on the other guy, so that he had to fence me through his own mental state. (That is, he was fighting himself as well as me for every touch.)

Gosh, it sounds like bragging. Let me also say, that my inner mindstate during a bout is not pretty. I'd be hideously embarassed if anybody were sharing my thoughts. As a young competitor, I made John McEnroe look like Mother Theresa. I know people still hate me. But the net result is confidence, that takes a lot to shatter. I have to arrive on strip already defeated in order to properly choke.

In terms of "balls in the air", I've found all that is put aside. I find myself thinking about the whole bout, not distance this, hand that, tip wherever. On strip, the minutiae should be handled autonomically. If possible, make the other person deal with minutia, like pointing out their shoe-laces, or asking about their covering, or simply saying "Thank-you" when scoring a touch. There's bad sportsmanship to consider, but there's also valid mind-f**king of the other guy that needs to be done. With the bout in perspective, there are brain-cycles left over to think about surface-level tactics, not how to move the hand, but general trend-stuff, like "generally go for the shoulder when he looks like that."

Common tricks: Take fast short breaths to get juiced up. Tunnel-vision around the opponent. Dead mile-long stare when not looking at opponent. Self-talk to encourage yourself. Reminding yourself that you love challenges. Smiling at the other guy. Putting a skip into the step. Nobody but nobody cares about your excuses; they just make failing easier. Never consider you're going to lose. Double the distance until you feel like you're "in your game." Night before, visualizations.

I just started reading The New Toughness Training In Sports by Loehr. It's a pop psyche sports book about finding and maintaining your zone. Amazon has them used for $7.50. It's a whole book about this topic, and if you can survive the buzzwords it's pretty decent.

There's also a PDF about mental state on the USFA website, pretty good.

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by Artisan
What do you try think about:
a) Before a competition
b) Before a bout
c) After last touch

a) What to have for breakfast, how early to get there, whether my equipment will pass, who that I know will be there, etc.

b) Unless mine is the first bout of a pool or tableau, I think about what the two fencers on the strip are doing and look for weaknesses.

c) Why do they make these damned reel-socket clips so hard to get loose?

and... what do you actually end up thinking about, in the midst of a competition bout.

Well, I fence sabre...

So, what is the two balls in the air list, the three balls, four, five, etc....?

If I can concentrate on distance and being relaxed and loose, it's enough. The rest takes care of itself through muscle memory and ingrained habit.

[retardedspleen]

Good dinner night before, good breakfast day of the competition (but not too close to start of the event) Vizualize myself doing well, or winning. my coach had us all starting some types of meditating, he said it worked very well for him, i dont think it did for me. Watch the fencers on the strip...think about what i can use against them...

When on the strip, before the touch i say "id like to acheive this action" i try for it, if it dosnt work out, TIME TO IMPROVISE ( I also fence sabre) im not sure theres enough time to actuly THINK about what to do, or if there is, then you shouldnt have much trouble defeating the guy accross from you. i think the reason i sucked when i first began was cause it wasnt instinct for me to do certain things..but with experience it became more natural. now i dont think AT ALL in a bout, the clearer my mind is the better. i have a plan, but that plan is always subject to change before or after ANY action.


wflaschka; You said EXACTLY what i was thinking about in Common tricks, hundred yard stare. this for whatever reason wierd people out, and makes you feel better...its great!

as for trying to juggle things while fencing...to much work...i can multi-task...but look at it like then, when blade comes to head, you block....and return. Instinct is what you need to develope, it takes time...but its what makes you a good fencer


Chris Triplett

[Chris]

Part of this answer depends on what weapon you are fencing, who you are fencing.

However, in general, at least when fencing other begginers, or near-beginners, many will do well to remember the following:

Relax,
Keep the distance,
MAKE the riposte!

(The RELAX part means A. don't get all nervous and distracted, and B. don't pary too soon!)

NOW, granted, there was a day, when this advice was a little more applicable than today; that's why I qualified with the beginner vs. beginner scenario, and let's face it: those ARE (usually/almost always) the ones they have the best chance of winning.

This strategy (not to be confused with tactic!!!) does a couple other things: It tends to make the bout last a little longer, which A. lets the person get more comfortable with the whole situation, B. gives them MORE time to see what is going on (it's really hard to learn anything in 24 seconds, especially if you win!), and C. gives you a chance to see how the OTHER guy is trying to beat YOU!

Good Luck!

[Marcos]

what is interesting is how similar everyone's responses are...

eats:
night before - pasta (generally Singapore Noodles!)

breakfast - bacon roll, banana, (when i was a kid, on a sunday morning my dad used to make me bacon sarnie before driving half the way across Britain to some competition)


thinks:
doesn't matter, just clear your mind before the bout, and try to avoid presiding as it gets tiring.
check out opposition, cheer on your friends, get positive

during bout
clear mind before each point. during a 15 pt DE, think about opponent, don't get caught up in own game, have a friend give you advice during breaks.

As for juggling balls, after a while it is instinct. However, when starting out, concentrate on getting one thing right. ok, you might lose, but your distance was ok, etc - until it becomes instinct.

After last point - who's next..?

[thyme_daniels]

a) Before a competition
i think about what my latest weaknesses have been, and i foicus on how to correct them that day. when i warm up with another fencer or my coach, i will try to work on my wekest spots. i eat adn i sleep. and i don't worry. worrying makes me lose, plus, fencing is just a game. i just try my best.

b) Before a bout
i'll go over my opponents tactics and decide what not to do and think of a few things that could help me score points, but most importantly, what i can do to not be hit.
c) After last touch
i think about what i did correctly or incorrectly, and i think about what i can do next time. and then i forget about it. thatw ay, if i lost, i won't get into a funk and lose every bout from there. if i win, i won't get too cocky and lose every bout from there. :-)

during a bout i think about
the distance between myself and my opponent
exactly where their weapon is
where my opportunites are and i hunt for their weaknesses
timing

[susanloper]

Originally posted by wflaschka
I just started reading The New Toughness Training In Sports by Loehr. It's a pop psyche sports book about finding and maintaining your zone. Amazon has them used for $7.50. It's a whole book about this topic, and if you can survive the buzzwords it's pretty decent.

I liked this book; it improved the way I dealt with practice and competition (and dare I say life?). Derek Cotton also recommends it, along with Zen in the Art of Archery.

Also, my husband and I have had good luck eating salmon the night before competitions and little tuna snacks after pools. I think the protein helps us stay mentally and emotionally focused during competitions.

HTH,
Susan

[lfortier]

A) Before a compeition, there's one word- PREPARATION.Long term and on going, I always try to learn the most out of my private lessons as well as my regular ones, do footwork and exercise often, eat very healthily; A low-fat, high protein, medium carb diet with NO junkfood. The day before, I'll rest to save my energy and eat as much as I want (as long as its healthy) practice footwork, point control, and take a private lesson. Then, I get about 8-10 hours of sleep.
B) Before a bout, I stretch very well, get advice/words of encouragment from my coach, try to get the adrenaline in my body and calmness in my head going. I'll watch the current bout and watch for each fencer's weaknesses.
C) After last touch, win or lose, I think about about what not and what to do next time, what my coach will say, and prepare myself for the next bout.

[ShaggyShaw]

a. b. and c. ideally

a. anything but the competiton
b. watching the oponnents fence, getting thier styles, so I don't get surprised.
c. who's next?

a b and c really

a. nothing but the competition
b. why isn't my epee working? should I clean the tip? do I have time? I pulled my ankle yesterday, how is that going to effect me? watching the oponnents fence, getting thier styles, so they won't surprise me.
c. who's next?