Physical / Mental stamina

[Marcos]

Finding as I get older (I'm 28) that towards the latter parts of competitions I am increasingly tired and unable to concentrate

Any good keep fit exercises you guys can recommend?

I am an accountant so pretty sedantary lifestyle outside of fencing!

[KBayDog]

Like it or not, Marcos, there is no quick fix: You need to get off your okole and do some endurance training

I am a distance runner (primarily marathons to ultramarathons), so I am naturally biased toward running. Go often, go long. It will definitely help you in the 14th minute of the 14th bout...now, if I could only combine some fencing ability with my endurance

Another thing is to fence, fence, fence. I don't know how things are run at your club, but if it is just "open fencing," stay out there the entire time. No matter how exhausted you are, continue to fence different people. This will force you to keep your mental edge, while building your body.

Engage in "mental endurance" games, like crossword puzzles, chess, Mensa puzzles, etc. to hone your mind. You should literally feel fatigued when your are done with these.

Aside from that, when competing, ensure that you eat balanced meals, and HYDRATE, HYDRATE, HYDRATE!!!

BTW, I am also beginning to feel the effects of aging...I am pushing the ripe old age of 25...lol Best of luck!

[jeff]

You're 28 and complaining about getting tired because you're feeling older??? Seek elsewheres for sympathy, young man!

(Serious answer: Cross-train with aerobic exercises. You're no longer young enough or active enough in daily exercise to get fast recovery times and stamina without working for it. This is just the beginning! But, you should have plenty of competitive years left).

[JEC]

In my club, there is only one fencer who also likes to build endurance. We do one of two things (depending on how many people are waiting for strips). The first time, we warm-up 10-20 touches of free fencing without keep the score and then we either fence (twice for the night) competitively to 45 touches with 1 minute breaks at every 15 or we fence three bouts to 30 touches with a minute break at 15. After each bout, I need a 20 oz gatorade and full 10 min rest. I think that it has made me a better fencer.

[wflaschka]

I'm reading a pop psychology sports book. After you get past the buzzwords, there are some tips that sound good.

The New Toughness Training in Sports, by Loehr. It goes like: Feeling sluggish? You're not far from feeling mentally defeated or dispirited.

- Carbohydrate sports drink every 1.5-2 hours, or more often

- Drink cold water to clear the mind

- Jump up and down to get the blood moving as you get onstrip

- Act like you're full of energy; the body will start making it

- IIRC, there was mention of bouncing off of some sort of sugar boost, like from a sweet drink, though this seems dangerous unless you're at the end of the competition

[Boo Boo]

There is no excuse at 28... I am 29 years old and am pretty much fitter and stronger than ever (with the exception of last year - I look 9 months off of work and trained very hard, so was fitter then than now...). There are a lot of fencing years left in my yet (although I might want to have a baby at some point, so would imagine that could cause some problems...)

Build more fitness into your lifestyle: you could run/go to the gym (endurance and resistance training) before work or at lunch. Not only will it build fitness and help your fencing, it will also make you feel better to get a break from your desk job. You could be more active in evenings and weekends that you don't fence. Its a struggle, but a good lifestyle change if you can make it.

I am a systems engineer, so know where you are coming from about the desk job...

Other things to look at: visualisation, relaxation techniques and getting some rest too (both throughout your normal training week, at the end of your competitive season and a few suitable points in between.

Boo
(not feeling too old at 29!)

[Peach]

Speaking as someone not quite twice your age, another thing I would suggest is learn to fence well even when you're tired. Too many people let tiredness affect their form. They get sloppy.

The other night I was fencing a bunch of relatively inexperienced fencers at the club, and one guy insisted I stay up and fence him after several bouts because (he said) he'd have a better chance of beating me when I was tired. I beat him soundly, and said to him afterwards, "You have to understand, I'm always tired."

Even when my knees are shaking I say to myself, "tuck in, sit down, breathe, fence correctly."

Not that endurance work doesn't help. I do that too. I do aerobic work on various different machines at the gym or bicycling, and lift weights a couple of times a week. I also make it a habit to fence for at least three hours at the club twice a week, and fence frequent tournaments purely for exercise and practice.

[wflaschka]

Originally posted by Peach
I beat him soundly, and said to him afterwards, "You have to understand, I'm always tired."

LOL. Perfect, absolutely right. It's one of those profound zen things you always hope to hear from older, wiser folks. And you don't even get to call yourself old yet.

There are no excuses for making excuses. Tired? So what. Focus. Those words probably just made him a better fencer. Perfect.

[Wizardly]

Yes, and there is a moral to this as well. Just because a fencer is tired doesn't mean he/she is going to roll over for you. Are you going to roll over when you're tired?

It's good that you get tired in practice. Keep going; this is practice for when you're tired in competition. This is also where you push the frontier of what gets you tired. Perfect your form while you're exhausted and it'll be even better when you're not.

[Zelda]

That tired comment is so true. I always seem to fence my best when half asleep, either through not having woken up yet or being totally exhausted. I think it has something to do with instinct taking over from thinking.

[wflaschka]

My theory: The less energy you have, the less you spend on nervous energy. It helps optimize thinking (without all these thoughts bouncing around in the head), and movement (no nervy twitchy hands).

In college, we had a theory that we fenced better if we were a little hung over. But then, college kids would have such a theory. I've even heard that the Italian team used to do shots between rounds, to steady the nerves.

Nowadays, I'm happy to just have any energy at all.

[Wizardly]

I was once told a story of a national team (Russian, perhaps) that got drunk the night before and fenced a rather large tournament hung over. They finished second because if they let their coach find out he'd have their heads. You may be right about being hung-over.

I'm thinking that almost everyone has stories of how they fenced better when they were ready to collapse. I've defeated rivals that were having a good day more soundly while I was exhausted than the best I've ever done while rested. I seem to do 33% better when I have the flu. I've pulled muscles, fenced like mad, layed down to rest them, get called back up, fenced like mad, and so on.

I think you're right: instinct (PRACTICE) takes over when you're tired. At this point, it's pure willpower that's winning your touches. Decide to not stop trying your hardest. And if that's not enough, it's immensely gratifying to see some cocky, full of energy, "i'm going to kick your ***" punk self destruct because he can't seem to beat a sweaty, panting, half dead opponent.

[sabreur]

I'm 45, and I've made it to the finals of a number of open events because I work consistently on aerobic endurance--a lot of younger folks start running out of gas in 15-touch DEs. I can't count the number of times that I've been down 2-7, or 2-8, and come back to win because the other guy got tired. I don't attribute the wins to my accumulated fencing wisdom and strategic understanding--much more they resulted from superior fitness and mental toughness..

There's an old saying "Fatigue makes cowards of us all." Get fit and stay fit. If you are overweight, get skinny. If you don't believe the value of this, fill a couple of liter and a half bottles with water, put them in a backpack, and try to do footwork.

Regards, MR

[Wizardly]

You know, that's not a half bad idea anyway! What's better, when you're done with footwork and tired, you've already got water handy!

[retardedspleen]

get a group of younger guys who are also training to be the best, do 2 pools of 15 touch bouts, each bout is the best 2 outa 3 (whoever wins gets a V who ever dosnt gets D) do that twice in one day....for 2 months, after that you could fence 5 full length events all the way to the gold, and still not be tired....also to warm up...do wind sprints. for example; Run from 1 side of the room to the other, take 30 seconds, run back, then run there again and back (no break inbetween running, but 30, to 50 seconds after each sprint ) then run there and back twice (again no break after you get to each wall) do this up to 8, or 10 (ALL SPRINTING) this will make you amazingly tired, even after a month or two of traning....but beleave me it pays off!!!


Chris Triplett

[Marcos]

These are all geat ideas - thanks! - I think what has carried me through when tired is a simple will to win, and knowing what it takes to score points

One thing that works for me is between each point focus on a single point of reference for a few seconds - now my wedding ring. Helps clear the mind and slow the bout.

I like the idea of non-stop fencing - say first to 45. The opponent would have to be of a similar standared. To stop it getting stale maybe come up with rules to encourage variety - eg no more than 7 flick hits, 7 counter attacks, etc. Force you to think the point through even when exhausted.

What prompted me to ask was that I won an open semi final recently 15-14...in the final I was 6-2 down before I knew it, ending up losing 15-13 due to the poor start - never again!!

[Sarah]

For me to stay fit, I run, bike, swim, and do pushups and situps! And I fence. I remember one time a friend and I wanted to see who could get the most points... I won... I think I got 135 anyway, that was a long fun bout!

PS~ I just upped my situps to 200 daily!!! I'm so proud!

[Marcos]

tell you what Sarah, after 200 push ups and 135 points, if someone said

"Smile.... it will make others feel happier which in turn will make YOU happier! "

I'd hit them !!




[b] Boo Boo, were you at Edinburgh for the 5 nations?

[Sarah]

Um, I don't get it? Sorry... I'm still a bit tired... did I offend you? Because I didn't mean to... sorry.

[Boo Boo]

Marcos

Yes, I was in Edinburgh for the 5 Nations (that seems AGES ago...)

Were you there too?

Boo