Hey Refs!!

[Prefab]

I have a question for you. I recently was called for going off the side of the strip to avoid a touch in Epee at a local tournament. I admit it - I did go off to avoid the touch. I was bound up with no way out. I have done this before at regional and NAC events and never been called for it. I have also had my opponents do it. How often is this called and what is the criteria? I know what it says in the rule book, but I don't see it being enforced - at least in my lower to mid level fencing experiences...

[Craig]

I haven't seen it called much. It's all a matter of 1. If the ref saw it and 2. how strict they're being that day. I would be more inclined to call that offense if it were obvious that you were dead if you didn't commit the "foul" - If you gained an obvious advantage from it, I'm going to call you for it.

Kind of the same thing with fouls in the NBA and NFL - everybody commits them but the refs don't always call it.

[edew]

Most referees are too lenient on this action. If I see it, I definitely call it. I hate it as a fencer when my opponent uses the edge and then squirts off when I make a lunge and the referee doesn't call it.

Note that you don't have to successfully avoid the blade. You just have to attempt to avoid the blade by going off the side. As a referee, I will have to interpret the action as such, of course.

Also, you may also go off the side of the strip not intending to avoid the blade and still actually do so. In that case, there's a halt called and your opponent gains one meter for your infraction.

I think a good rule to change is to make the penalty for going of the side of the strip 2 meters. That makes a big difference near the end of the strip and will be a much better deterrent to those edge huggers.

[fencingguy]

Two meters would be absurd. You could be nowhere near the end of the strip, step off the side by accident and lose a touch. I'm not a side hugger, but I still don't think it's such a huge problem.

BTW whats the problem with people fencing on the side of the strip???? It seems like a fairly smart idea as it helps to close off one of your lines.

[edew]

It is a good idea. But if you go off the side, you should likewise be penalized for it. With the one-meter, the penalty is nothing special.

[Jupiter]

going off the strip - yes it's a pain to fence someone that does this, maybe a warning from the ref with a card later?

[Marcos]

slightly of-topic...

saw a demonstration of wireless fencing using a circular piste - myself, taking into account safety, i reckon this would be excellent for the sport...

..anyway, no running off the piste there!

[Chris]

Originally posted by edew
Most referees are too lenient on this action. If I see it, I definitely call it. I hate it as a fencer when my opponent uses the edge and then squirts off when I make a lunge and the referee doesn't call it.

I agree with eric (hey, it's not the first time...), many people forget to look for this. Partly, it's because a lot of people wind up refereeing withOUT having read the rule book; someone may have told them they have a good grasp of the action, so they should referee, and there's a lot more to it, OR they have some expereince fencing, and just get 'drafted into service', and there you go!

Note that you don't have to successfully avoid the blade. You just have to attempt to avoid the blade by going off the side. As a referee, I will have to interpret the action as such, of course.

Also, I think, it's possible that people may think you may go off BEFORE the beginning of actual thrust/cut motion that would hit, and NOT be in violation.

(actually, I know there are people who think it even disallowed if you are merely off the strip when hit - and that's just wrong!)

I.e., if you are already off the strip when the 'hitting' action starts, the action is after the halt, and disallowed.

Which IS true, but that's the whole point of the penalty! If the point of leaving the strip is to avoid that hitting action you are cheating the opponent out of a hard earned opportunity!

Also, you may also go off the side of the strip not intending to avoid the blade and still actually do so. In that case, there's a halt called and your opponent gains one meter for your infraction.

I think a good rule to change is to make the penalty for going of the side of the strip 2 meters. That makes a big difference near the end of the strip and will be a much better deterrent to those edge huggers.

Well, this rule was unified (it used to be 1 m in foi, and 2m in epee/sabre) a long time ago, for a reason, although, I suppose they could make them all 2m vs. 1m, but I don't expect them to do that.

I will point out, however, that, many people still misapply this penalty: It is NOT the offender who must yield a meter, but the opponent, who GAIND a meter; the offender must then take up position accordingly, giving the adequate distance as described in the rules wherein the arms may be extended, without crossing the blades, etc.
THis usually results in the guilty party losing significantly more than one meter.

Have a nice day!

[WHEREISMYTOE]

A circular strip would ruin this sport. Even if it would make it more fun to watch on TV.

-N

[haggis]

I'd call it and think more refs should.

If your opponent parried with his back arm or pulled his croc clip off, you'd expect him to be penalised. Stepping off the piste should be treated in the same way.