Jackets...

[Hornsby]

Black jackets, actually. I called all the suppliers within 6 hours of here, and I searched the web for hours and cant find one. I've had friends that use them, so I know they exist. Does anyone know where I can get one?

[npkeith]

triplette claims to sell colored lames - you have to call for color availability, but they may have one on black...

[Mergs]

Black is usually a color reserved for Masters/Meastros/Matries/Really good teacher/coaches. As for a regulation fencing jacket in that color, they are not normally available, however you can find teaching jackets/plastrons in that color under Coaches equipment.

[Inquartata]

Or you can buy a white cotton one and a couple of boxes of black fabric dye. Just don't expect to be very popular if you show up at a big tournament expecting to fence in it...

[DHCJr]

Inquartata has given you good advice. You may have an expensive experiment, if you are expecting to fence. Check out M25.4. I for one would not consider Black a light shade.

[Hornsby]

ok, well, Im not expecting to fence in a tournament really. But I didnt know that about being reserved for masters and such. So, how big a deal is that, and does it really matter in an informal group?

[Catal]

It's like walking into a martial arts studio wearing a black-belt because it makes you look cool, and not because you earned it. If it's just friends, then have at it. But, I definitely would not want to be seen by any competitive fencers wearing a black jacket.

[Foilboy]

What about black socks? Would the director really care if you wore black socks to a tournament? Probably not from my expierence, just thought I'd ask.

[NJP3]

I wear crazy colored, unmatching socks all the time and have never been called for it. Plus, black socks dont really make you look like a fencing master!

[oiuyt]

m 25.3 (note, the rule is part of .3 not .4) doesn't mean black isn't legal. He can't use it in national competition, but anything below that level he'd be fine with. Whether or not he SHOULD is a different question, but saying that it's not legal for competition is just wrong.

Fencers' clothing may be of different colors, but on the body it must be a single color, white or a light shade.

Note: At USFA local, divisional, and sectional competitions, there are no restrictions on colors or decorations on unifroms, providing that the uniforms still comply with all other requirements.

Heck, if you fence a ROW weapon then having a black jacket isn't a problem even in national competition.

-B :)

[Inquartata]

Yeah...but note that "a light shade". A light shade of black? That's gray, isn't it?

[Foilboy]

I usually go all white for a competition, more traditional and all.

[lfortier]

Me, I get nervous enough in tournies, so, I just go with all white to be on the safe side- that way, I wont have to worry about being called for wearing some other color that I'm not supposed to.

[DHCJr]

Oiuyt, I believe you are quoting from the 2000 edition and in that case, that is correct.

I was able to get the 2002 edition and that dropped that comment from the rule book. I don't know if that was an editors mistake or what.

I hope that they soon update the web site to include the 2002 edition. From now on, I will make sure and note what edition, I am quoting.

[oiuyt]

K, that helps explain why we were quoting different things. Incidently, for what it's worth, the confirmation packet for Austin (which I just received today, woohoo!) includes the following:

U.S. Fencing allows uniforms of a single pastel color or design on the rear (unarmed) arm and leg. As the purpose of uniform color or design is for audience interest, such designs should be in good taste.

Now this is NOT a rule book, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's a paraphasing that is different from the meaning of the rules in any version of the rulebook, but it's at the least another applicable reference. In fact I would be surprised if the above were NOT materially different from the rule that it is intented to be citing.

A couple of other notes... The same confirmation packet also specifies that a full jacket is required in both epee and foil, and specifies white knee socks. Brings into question its reliability as a source for what is allowable. Interesting that the rules cited in an official mailing like this would disagree with the rulebook given on the USFA website.

DHC- does the 2002 book distinguish in any way between colors on the torso and the rest of the body? Could you quote the applicable rule(s) here just for reference given that you have a more recent copy of the rulebook? Thanks. Oh, one other thing. Could you check to see if the rules have been changed to require a full jacket in foil as well as in epee? It would make sense if such a change has been made, and would fit with the other rule cited above from the confirmation packet. Thanks again.

-B :)

[Duelist]

Don't the rules say the uniform must be white or a light pastel?

[Duelist]

Whoops I just noticed that was said before....

[DHCJr]

The rule is still the same as what you quoted. They just dropped the note, which may be an editorial problem. Your perception was correct, they still only specify Epee as having a complete jacket.

Your information on the packet you received was an eye-opener. It shows a lack of consistencies.

From what you said, I am starting to wonder about this 2002 edition. Let me tell you how I have it on my computer. Last Summer, I was chosen as the Head Armorer for the Pentathlon World Championship, so I downloaded for the appropriate web site the various rule books I would need, the FIE and the Modern Pentathlon rule books and just for reference purposes (not official) the USFA rule book. To my surprise, even though it said what it says now (1999), the 2002 appeared. Since then they have gone back to the 2000. Was there so many typos that they removed the 2002? I don't know, but I did e-mail the USFA to ask. We will see their answer.

An aside. The International Pentathlon rule book is in English, which helped. They take the rule book from the 5 disciplines and translate them and modify them for their own use. I had some interesting discussions on the rules with their President.

Some of the interesting items that they fixed after I pointed them out were the Piste must be a MINIMUM of 5 ohms resistance. A gym floor, a rug or concrete would pass that rule, but a copper piste would not. Another was the length of the cylinder to test the size of the guard was 156 cm. If you look at picture diagram of the gabarit, it is all in mm, but the rules are in cm, so not only was there a typo, but the wrong measurement. It should have been 150 (not 156) mm or 15cm. Think of passing a weapon through a tube over 5 feet long.

After that, I appreciated the work both the British and American Editors worked on the English Version of the rules.

[R. Exnicios]

I have always tried to hold to the belief that black is for Master. I spent a good bit of time trying to get a coaches jacket/plastron in a color other than black. I gave up Allstar only makes them in black..Allstar Uhlmamm and a few other do make and sell black jackets for coaches.

As of rthe socks. I did see a fencer changing socks at the NAC in Orlando because a referee told him that his socks would not be allowed. I don't know the specifics. I saw him changing socks and I asked another fencer what was going on.

I like the whit with team colors. Traditional but still flashy.

Then again there are always the guys who wash their own gear for the first time and show up at practice in a nice pink jacket

Cheers

[typoink]

I use a jacket with one black sleeve and a black glove. I do hold that a black jacket should be reserved for masters, but I find black "accents" streamline my look without intruding on the masters' distinction.

In my opinion, it isn't the same as putting on a black belt, it's more like putting a black racing stripe on a yellow belt.

If you're looking for colored equipment, triplette sells a fair amount of colored jackets, knickers, bibs, and lames. And bibs.