Size 0 foil blades for kids... Really?

[wflaschka]

As a child fencer, I never got to use short weapons, and so I don't know much about them.

Now I have a small 9-yr old fencer who is shopping for his first electric weapon. Normal-sized electrics are quite too large for his hand and he has problems with control. Apart from that, he's a decent fencer and quite driven.

Does anyboy have any advice about the smaller blade sizes for kids? Is it beneficial? Is it a marketing ploy? Hep?

[JEC]

Most kids use blades #2. My son got started at 7 and began with them. They are required (0 or 2) for Y10 at RYC or NAC Youth competitions. As he became 9, he was eligible to compete in Y12, and I bought him a #5. The problem was it was heavier (even the ultralight) and he had poorer point control.

[Wizardly]

I was under the impression size 0,2 were only for 10 and under. I believe it says in the athletes handbook as a footnote in the table of national events (I know, stupid place to put it, not very obvious or explicit). If he's 9, I'd say borrow a 0 or 2 until he's 10 and buy the full size 5. He's not going to want a foil he wont want to use in two years.

[JEC]

Originally posted by Wizardly
I was under the impression size 0,2 were only for 10 and under. I believe it says in the athletes handbook as a footnote in the table of national events (I know, stupid place to put it, not very obvious or explicit). If he's 9, I'd say borrow a 0 or 2 until he's 10 and buy the full size 5. He's not going to want a foil he wont want to use in two years.

Not necessarily. Some would be able to handle #5 at 9, but some kids have growth spurs later and would feel more comfortable with #2. At age 10, some times he insisted in using them even against the Y12 (foil and/or epee) because of better point control

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Wizardly
I was under the impression size 0,2 were only for 10 and under. I believe it says in the athletes handbook as a footnote in the table of national events (I know, stupid place to put it, not very obvious or explicit). If he's 9, I'd say borrow a 0 or 2 until he's 10 and buy the full size 5. He's not going to want a foil he wont want to use in two years.

If he wants to compete, what kind of blade he WANTS or how long he'll want to use it is irrelevant. he NEEDS a 0 or 2. 0 or 2 are REQUIRED for Y10 competition. Also, there is no limit for seniors. if he (or you, or anybody) wants to use a 0 or 2 beyond age 10, it is completely legal to do it.

-m

[DHCJr]

I have never seen a rule that defines what a 0 or 2 blade is. If someone were to stamp a 0 or a 2 on a full length blade, would it be legal? I would say, yes! Just a thought, I would like the Youth Committee would do something about that discrepency.

[fresfisher929]

At my club we have a youth fencer who uses a 0 blade, and he's very effective with hit. I haven't confirmed this for sure but i believe that the top foilist in the nation in some group i didn't ask, besides the y12 uses a 0 blade. Expressedly for the purpose of getting in on his opponent and infighting.

[wflaschka]

IIRC, Zaddick Longenbach (who now runs the Metro salle in NY) used a short blade through some of his career. It seemed to work pretty well for him.

[edew]

I use a #4 blade all the time, although sometimes I'm short on blades and have to buy whatever's available.

Joe Biebel, because of tendinitis of his fencing arm, uses a #0 blade (or a #2, whichever: it's substantially shorter than his opponent's).

Doesn't seem to affect his ability to hit too badly.

[Jupiter]

I have to admit I'm confused about the rules for blade length and if someone could provide an explanation, about ages + blades.

When I first went back to fencing, I started with some club blades which were size 0, but was told that for my up-coming event, I had to buy a #5. So, what is a #4? I also searched through some stuff on the net, and saw for example the europeans carry different size blades. Can you tell us more?

[JEC]

Originally posted by edew
I use a #4 blade all the time, although sometimes I'm short on blades and have to buy whatever's available.

Joe Biebel, because of tendinitis of his fencing arm, uses a #0 blade (or a #2, whichever: it's substantially shorter than his opponent's).

Doesn't seem to affect his ability to hit too badly.

Certainly in foil, but not in epee. Distance, extend, wrist/forearm touch. Pommeling against a #0 orthopedic would give almost 5 inches.

[oiuyt]

Originally posted by Jupiter
I have to admit I'm confused about the rules for blade length and if someone could provide an explanation, about ages + blades.

When I first went back to fencing, I started with some club blades which were size 0, but was told that for my up-coming event, I had to buy a #5. So, what is a #4? I also searched through some stuff on the net, and saw for example the europeans carry different size blades. Can you tell us more?

For Y10 national events either a #0 or #2 blade is required. As mentioned previously by DHC there are no actual definitions for what a specific number means. A full-sized "normal" blade is a #5. Generally you'll be about an inch short for every number below that (I've only ever seen #0, #2, #4, and #5, anyone know if #1 or #3 are made?) but this will vary from supplier to suplier. Yes this is a flaw with the rules. Yes the national level armorers tend to be vocal about it when the subject comes up. The rules explicitly state a maximum blade length and implicitly set a minimum blade length. Assuming that you're not a Y10 fencer, anything between these two lengths is legal.

-B :)

[edew]

Originally posted by JEC
Certainly in foil, but not in epee. Distance, extend, wrist/forearm touch. Pommeling against a #0 orthopedic would give almost 5 inches.

I would not recommend a 0 blade in epee, unless you're playing coach. And in a competition using a 0 blade, you're going to be playing coach!

I use a #4 blade for foil, but for epee, I use #5. That's mainly because no one makes #4 blades in epee. At least no one has them, and no one I've talked to have them.

Indeed, with the demise of F-L, there's a worldwide shortage of fencing blades (where's the Sierra Club bemoaning the near extinction of fencing blades?) and so production at most forges are making #5s in great quantities and ignoring the #4s altogether. It's very difficult to find and get #4 blades at the moment. Certainly so for #4 maraging blades.

[magma]

I can't imagine trying to bring a weapon that wouldn't at least be in the same range as other weapons. According to the text, Foil, Epee and Sabre the epee should be "110 centimeters with the total weight not to exceed 770 grams".

[Artisan]

Originally posted by edew

I use a #4 blade for foil, but for epee, I use #5. That's mainly because no one makes #4 blades in epee. At least no one has them, and no one I've talked to have them.

I'm curious...why use a #4? How much shorter is it? Is it to improve point control, to improve infighting? Why WHy Why?

[edew]

Give my opponents a fighting chance...

[I see dead people]

size zero is penut.
nothin' beats my size -2 blade.

[fencing8901]

If u fence when ur young where can you get fenceing lessons for kids????

[Barry Paul]

Size 4 Electric Foil Blades Etoile and Paul France are standard ex-stock item on Leon Paul on line ordering.

Years ago (25+?) when we we were receiving monthly shipments of Blades, the usage of size 4 Blades dropped very quickly and we managed to be oversupplied with size 4 Paul france Blades (Over 1000 in stock) (These are from the original Hostine Forge, subsequently France Lame Forge.)

We also have a stock of Italian style Blades.

As for size 4 maraging we occasional have them as failed size 5 so we could make them to special order.

The same goes for size 4 epee blades, we can make them to special order.

In the U.K uder 10 use size 0, Under13/14 use size 3 at foil and size 2 at epee sabre. There is also a minimum flexibilty for these blades to ensure the smaller length blades were not just adult stiffness blades made to a shorter length.

Blade lenght for number 5 is 35 inches and reduces by 1 inch every decrease in size. (size 0 = 30 inch)

As to the question is it a marketing ploy. No young fencers cannot manage full size blades and it is essential for young fencers development they start with a wepon they can handle easily.

Barry Paul MD Leon Paul

[Dragonfly]

I concur.