New England

[Ramesay]

Which club do you guys think is best in New England?????????

[Peach]

Best for what? Youth fencing/adult fencing/epee/foil/sabre/directing/social life/classes/facilities/gossip/scandal/coaching?

[epeemike81]

Best is VERY subjective. as is "New England".

Are we talking NE Div, or the geographical area?? actually, strike that. it doesn't really matter much. almost all of the best clubs in geographical NE are in NE Div, anyway.

As for the answer, it is Boston Fencing Club, Prise de Fer, Zeta Fencing Studio, in no particular order.

they are all good, and they all have different, distinct personalities. which is right for any given person depends on what they want.

Charles River Fencing Club is also good for sabre.

-m

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Peach
Best for what?

Youth fencing/adult fencing

all of the big three have good youth AND adult programs, with different methods, and styles. personal choice.

epee

if we're talking PURE STRENGTH here, its PdF for the men and ZFS for the women.

foil

Again, pure strength, BFC for both men and women, hands down.

sabre

as I'm guessing peach knows, both PdF and ZFS have great strength in WS. in MS, the talent is fairly spread out, but I'd give Charles River Fencing Club the nod.

directing

not sure how to put that as a CLUB related issue...

social life

Translating this as personality, this is the MOST important issue, imo. I can't tell you which is "best". they are very different, and it depends on which meshes best with the individual.

classes

quality thereof, they are all pretty solid. BFC tends to offer more of them.

facilities

BFC. no question.

gossip

well, my own personal opinion is that PdF is best for dishing gossip.

scandal

see gossip.

coaching?

Well, I'll list the coaches, and let you all do the research:
Boston Fencing Club Coaches:
Emilio Arguello (Foil, Epee)
Stacey Eddy (Foil, Epee)
Amr Kaliouby (All three)
Gamal Mahmoud (Foil, Epee)
Cesar Morales (Foil, Sabre)
Vitaliy Nazerenko (Foil, Sabre)
Bill Shipman (All three)
Max Zaitsev (Epee)
Pavel Zelikman (Foil, Epee)

Prise de Fer Coaches:
Adam Blake
Dave Blake
Ariana Klinkov
Gamal Mahmoud

Zeta Fencing Studio Coach:
Zoran Tulum

Hope this is a little informative.

-m

[mtarascio]

I think one should not forget to list Tanner City Fencing Club. This club has produced more Olympians, Junior/Senior World Championship Team Members, Junior/Senior National Champions, and Coaches than all club combined in the New England Division.

The club offers high quality instruction with one only having to pay an annual membership fee in the range of $25 - $75. No lesson fees.

Boston Fencing Club, Prise de Fer and Zeta Fencing Studio are very strong clubs with excellent coaching.

[Ramesay]

But didn't BFC sabre beat Charles River at Nationals Last Year?

If you were an incoming fencer with some potential ( Any weapon) where would you go?

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Ramesay
But didn't BFC sabre beat Charles River at Nationals Last Year?

If you were an incoming fencer with some potential ( Any weapon) where would you go?

again, it depends on what club meshes best with you!

They are ALL good clubs. Also, it IS weapon dependant.

-m

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by mtarascio
I think one should not forget to list Tanner City Fencing Club. This club has produced more Olympians, Junior/Senior World Championship Team Members, Junior/Senior National Champions, and Coaches than all club combined in the New England Division.

The club offers high quality instruction with one only having to pay an annual membership fee in the range of $25 - $75. No lesson fees.

Boston Fencing Club, Prise de Fer and Zeta Fencing Studio are very strong clubs with excellent coaching.

Though Tanner City is still a good club, the glories you cite are all WELL in the past. at this time, it is significantly weaker than the other three clubs. This is a change from the past, and may change yet again, but right now it isn't as strong as them.

-m

[whtouche]

Who coaches at tanner city now, and is it the same person who got all the results posted above?

[mtarascio]

Currently, the coaches at Tanner City are Maestro Joe Pechinsky,
Jane Hall Carter, Molly Slaney Sullivan, Jim Carter, Jon Moss and Paul Harris. All of thse folks volunteer their time. In addition, there are others that volunteer their time in helping out.

Not living in New England anymore, I'm curious on what type of National/International results fencers from Boston Fencers' Club,
Prise de Fer and Zito have had. How many National Champions? How many World Championship Team members? How many Olympians?

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by mtarascio
Currently, the coaches at Tanner City are Maestro Joe Pechinsky,
Jane Hall Carter, Molly Slaney Sullivan, Jim Carter, Jon Moss and Paul Harris. All of thse folks volunteer their time. In addition, there are others that volunteer their time in helping out.

Not living in New England anymore, I'm curious on what type of National/International results fencers from Boston Fencers' Club,
Prise de Fer and Zito have had. How many National Champions? How many World Championship Team members? How many Olympians?

Joe is the coach who produced those results before, and he is STILL a great coach, to be sure, but that club hasn't produced fencers to the level of the others in quite awhile.

Boston Fencing Club has Enoch Woodhouse Alejandro Bras in MF, both top 5 juniors (3 and 5, respectively), and Greg and Tim Chang, both top 10 Seniors (4 and 7, respectively) both of whom are very good fencers, as well as Roni Gold in ME, I believe. Roni may be unattached (not sure), but regardless is coached by Pavel. all of BFC's best fencers are coached by Pavel.

Prise de Fer and Zeta both make waves in WS, with Prise having the best fencer: Daria Schneider. Zeta's Aislinn Dewey's results, however, are improving: 13th at the last Div I NAC. additionally, Zeta has Dani Gordet and Chiara McPhee, while PdF has Eva Jellison. Zeta also has Kira Hohensee for WE.

Also, the three clubs mentioned have some up and coming fencers, like Ian McEachern, Henry Kennard, Doug Hohensee, and Chris Flanders. Are any of these results particularly impressive nationally or internationally?? no, not compared to Tanner City's past glories. however, Tanner City doesn't currently have ANYBODY who rises anywhere NEAR that level.

-m

[DJ Apostrophe]

Another thing to remember when comparing Prise and Zeta to BFC and TCFC, is that they are both (relatively) new clubs. Prise was founded in 1997 by two former TCFC fencers (Dave Blake and Ariana Klinkoff). And Zeta, was formed when Zoran Tulum moved into the area (Summer of 2001, IIRC), as a result, these clubs have not had the TIME to develop champions... they probably will, give them a few years.

Mike is correct however, that both of these clubs are on a considerably higher level then TCFC.
-w
p.s. I am NOT saying that Joe Pechinksky isn't an amazing coach. He is, and he deserves much credit for everything he has done in the past.

[a517dogg]

Zeta is on it's way up fast, in my opinion. zoran is an excellent coach and can develope talent very well.

BFC is on a downward slump for the time being but i think that is not going to last very long. fencers will be drawn to the facilities, the coaches and the history.

prise de fer has individual successes but i dont see enough young kids fencing out of that club... yet. but then again i dont really pay that much attention to youth results, so maybe they do.

the other clubs in the area are lower level than these three. in my opinion bfc would be the best club to go to for a beginner because of the number of coaches and the facilities that you can choose from/use. but then again im a bfc member so i am obviously biased.

[DJ Apostrophe]

Adrian,
Prise de Fer has accumulated a ton of kids... not quite the number / caliber of the BFC junior team, but Dave has done a hell of a job getting kids in the Salle for open fencing. When I go there for open fencing it seems some nights that there are more kids 14 and under than anything else. Not all of them compete on the local scene just yet, but the ones that do tend to perform pretty well. I.E. Erica Pernice, Jake Merrill, etc. Prise and Zeta are both improving each year, and although BFC is in a slump, I think it is mainly attributable to the fact that these new options (zeta and prise) have taken away some of the talent that would have otherwise sought out BFC. I think as time progresses, BFC will return to being the pinnacle of the Division, just due to the facilities and the sheer volume of coaches and fencers that come through the doors. However, if Prise gets the permanent space that they are after, I think it could become quite the interesting divisional rivalry (if it isnt already).
-w

[pink lady]

Go BFC!!!
woohoo!
:-P

[Ramesay]

Alright I've been talking to my friend in new england and he told me the real way to see the best club is to look at the teams.

BFC MF:
Woodhouse
Bras
G. Chang

PDF:
Kennard
Tovrov
...

Zeta:
Hohensee
...
...

BFC MS:
Flanders
Lieberman
Doris-Pierce
Jacobs( I heard he's switching to Epee?????)

PDF:
Spear
Abend
Morris

Zeta:
...
...
...

BFC ME:
Gold
Martin
Rohrer

PDF:
Macheachern (Is that the right spelling?)
A. Blake
...

Zeta:
...
...
...

BFC WF:
Aucoin
Bartholomew
Hanneberg

PDF:
...
...
...

Zeta:
McCully
...
...

BFC WE:
Hughes
...
...

PDF:
Backman
...
...


Zeta:
K. Hohensee
...
...

BFC WS:
Maxfield
...
...

PDF:
Schneider
Jellison
Pernice

Zeta:
Dewey
Gordet
...

I don't see a slump for BFC. But I guess i the little kids and not the elders will show the future of this division.

P.S. I heard Zoran has done some shady things as far as "recruiting" young students, is it true?

[whtouche]

zeta WS you forgot McPhee and wilson.
PDF MF you forgot Osserman, who doesnt show up much to tournaments but last time I saw him he beat enoch woodhouse in an open.
Zeta ME has at least one A, from a couple opens ago.

I dont pay attention to much other than sabre.
As far as Ben Jacobs switching to epee...um, I doubt it. I havent heard much one way of another, but people don't usually go talking about what they're NOT doing.
It wouldnt make much sense anyways. He's been fencing sabre at columbia this past year and as good as he was before, I fenced him last weekend and he's gotten rediculous. Caught me all sorts of flat footed. Granted the only reason I could even stand up that day was 4 different kinds of medication
So I assume he's been putting alot of work into sabre - which he's pretty much always done. That and the fact that he doesnt really have any kind of height, it wouldnt make much sense to switch to epee.

Sabre's more fun anyways

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Ramesay
Alright I've been talking to my friend in new england and he told me the real way to see the best club is to look at the teams.

BFC MF:
Woodhouse
Bras
G. Chang

PDF:
Kennard
Tovrov
...

Zeta:
Hohensee
...
...

As Ben pointed out, you missed Osserman.

Also, for Zeta you should add such fencers as Bisinagno such as Bisinagno.

BFC MS:
Flanders
Lieberman
Doris-Pierce
Jacobs( I heard he's switching to Epee?????)

PDF:
Spear
Abend
Morris

Zeta:
...
...
...

Jacobs IS switching to Epee. Also, you forgot that CRFC should be considered for MS:
CRFC MS:
Efstathiou
Bower
Fuhro

This is CLEARLY better than the above, though BFC comes close.

BFC ME:
Gold
Martin
Rohrer

PDF:
Macheachern (Is that the right spelling?)
A. Blake
...

Zeta:
...
...
...

The third from PdF should probably be Tom Turner. Zeta's team should start with Will Blumenreich, who is an A.

BFC WF:
Aucoin
Bartholomew
Hanneberg

PDF:
...
...
...

Zeta:
McCully
...
...

you seem to be missing Elif Sachs. she is better than ANYBODY on the BFC list. Additionally, Zeta has a number of girls who could round out the team. I won't name them, as none are particularly spectacular.

BFC WE:
Hughes
...
...

PDF:
Backman
...
...


Zeta:
K. Hohensee
...
...

BFC has a number of girls who could round this one out. Zeta has a GOOD number of good WE that you should have mentioned: Joyce, Agulian, Dickinson, Collins, just to name a few.

BFC WS:
Maxfield
...
...

PDF:
Schneider
Jellison
Pernice

Zeta:
Dewey
Gordet
...

As whtouche pointed out, you missed Chiara McPhee for Zeta.

I don't see a slump for BFC. But I guess i the little kids and not the elders will show the future of this division.

P.S. I heard Zoran has done some shady things as far as "recruiting" young students, is it true?

First of all, your friend is wrong. looking at teams is NOT a good way to judge clubs. for one thing, depth is not an indication of coaching, but rather of club longevity and number of students. Just because PdF doesn't have more fencers of Kennard's caliber doesn't change the fact that Dave trained him to that level from scratch. it is a clear testament to his coaching. Similarly, we cannot yet judge Zoran on his NE track record, as some of his best fencers (ref: the Hohensees) were already spectacular when they came to him. His record at Stanford speaks for itself, however. As for his recruiting techniques, I have heard nothing. IMO, until you are more sure of such accusations, they should not be stated on a public forum like this. Judging from the completeness and accuracy of the teams you list, I'm guessing your friend is a BFC fencer.

The bottom line is that, ANY of the three clubs is FINE. its all about what meshes with your personality. really, its about finding the right COACH for you and going there. for Epee, the best coach in NE is Gamal Mahmoud. he coaches at PdF and BFC.

-m

[DJ Apostrophe]

I'd go a little further to say that Ramseay's friend is a BFC Junior Team member.... how many people he named were over 22? 3- Adam, Ian, Greg Chang.
Granted, the Juniors are the Divisions strong side... but missing Elif is a major 'oops' that I can only see a BFC Junior Team person making. That said, teams are NOT the best way to decide the 'best' club. It may be a good determining factor in which club is 'stronger' but stronger != best.

The 'best' club is one that fits you, one where you can enjoy yourself and the sport, while improving. Any of these clubs can be enjoyable, but it is you who has to make the decision as to what is right for you. Do you want the informality and craziness that goes along with PdF? Do you want the smaller setting that Zeta provides? Or do you want the wealth of resources that BFC provides? Everyone is different and different clubs suit different personalities.
-w

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by DJ Apostrophe
The 'best' club is one that fits you, one where you can enjoy yourself and the sport, while improving.

I agree in this case, but it is important to note that the reason what fits is the most important issue is because all three are good enough. if the list were expanded to include another, weaker club, I would say that you should choose which club fits you from among the three strong ones. Strength is important, but all of those are at such a level that personality becomes the tie breaker.

-m