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Originally posted by Gav I get a little offended when people refer to me as 'English" when I'm not. Or when people refer to the UK as 'England' when it's not. The latter is particularly annoying and perpetrated by American tourists every time they speak to you. Quite a few Americans claim Scottish descent and still refer to the UK as 'England'. Ah, now THIS one I knew about! ( Had a Scottish history teacher in HS. ) 
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Originally posted by jeff "Scotch is a drink, Scots is a person". OTOH, John Kenneth Galbraith has been quoted as saying "Yes, we DO call ourselves 'Scotch'"....
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Originally posted by Inquartata Fallacy of false dilemma, Walter. There are rather more than just two alternatives. Such as... Well... it's no fun if you point out my fallacies. IIRC, it was a "groan" type of offense, nothing actionable, and someone in the White House apologized for the mis-step. And, to my knowledge, it hasn't happened again.
I'll also agree that the President, as an office, has bigger fish to fry. OTOH, presidents shouldn't screw up every time they open their mouths; the cogs of diplomacy just don't roll as smoothly. I'll leave it at that.
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Originally posted by Gav If you are American do not say you are Scottish. You may say, "I am of Scottish extraction." I know a lot of you may not believe this but it really annoys people in Scotland. It's like me saying, "I'm a Viking!" when my family hasn't been Viking for nearly 1000 years.
While you're quite right, the pedant in me insists upon pointing out that the analogy is flawed: "viking" was an occupation or a way of life, not a nationality. The vast majority of Scandinavians never left their native lands. "Viking" is closer in meaning to "pirate" than to, say, "Norse"...
Maybe it's closer to saying "I'm African-American" when your family hasn't been African in----oh, no, wait, that's common practice these days....
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Originally posted by jeff Unfortunately, I think most of us Yanks are confused about the different components of the United Kingdom and how to properly address its residents, and we tend to treat it all as a single collection. What's the expression - "Scotch is a drink, Scots is a person". It works the same for US distinctions too: it must really annoy somebody from, say, Mississippi, to be called a "Yankee".
Now you've confused me - you refer to "most of us yanks" but then say that some people wouldn't like to be called a "yankee". Not that I would anyway - "yank" is a term I might use but not to an american person's face in polite conversation - you worked out my cockney rhyming slang yet?!
I'm embarrassed to say I couldn't adequately define what a "yankee" is as any american history I know tails off sometime after the revolution. It's to do with the civil war, isn't it? People from the northern states? This is a guess as I fortunately know where mississippi is, although I admit if you gave me a pin, a blank outline of the USA and said, say, "north dakota" I'd not get very far...)
The linguistic divide is fraught with danger, but it can be very entertaining. I remember being on the tube in London once and this american lady tourist referred to her "fanny pack" (first time I'd heard the term) and I had to go three more stops before I could get off and howl with laughter.  I'm sure British people unconsciously provide just as much amusement when we're abroad! Louweasel
"I grew up in Europe, where the history comes from" [Eddie Izzard]
"she might not look like much, kid, but she's got it where it counts"
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Maybe it's closer to saying "I'm African-American" when your family hasn't been African in----oh, no, wait, that's common practice these days....
Yes, and I'm sure that an African tribesman living on the Plains of Africa who has to deal with civil war, famine, plague etc would be equally annoyed by a black American asserting this to them.
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Originally posted by Louweasel Now you've confused me - you refer to "most of us yanks" but then say that some people wouldn't like to be called a "yankee". This is because yankees will only speak for themselves. They've learned this hard lesson. If yankees attempt to speak for the South, we will rise up and smite them again. And it won't be as friendly as last time.
/transplanted yankee
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Louweasel, you guessed at it, it's from our Civil War: "Yankee" or "Yank" was used to describe the Northerners, as "Rebels" or "Rebs" was used as a name for the Southerners. Due to the way history has unfolded since then, the US hasn't completely "gotten over" the conflict (as witness wflaschka's post. Joking I hope!) It's as if Britons were still getting upset over Cromwell, or the Matilda and Stephen wars. Anyway, Southerners don't like being called by the name associated with their enemy in the Civil War....
I almost *never* can figure out Cockney rhyming slang. Or UK style crosswords, either. "In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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Originally posted by jeff
I almost *never* can figure out Cockney rhyming slang. Or UK style crosswords, either. Septic = septic tank = yank! Sorry...
The thing about cockney rhyming slang is that the rhyming bit of the phrase is usually cut off to shorten it, so it is very confusing for the outsider. I'm not from London originally (nearer Manchester) so it took me a while to get them - I work with a good proportion of born and bred, dyed in the wool London men so I have picked up a bit. It's worse if the phrase is exclusively british english to start with - like sherbet = sherbet dab = cab (sherbet dab being a type of children's sweet with fizzy powder and a lollipop to dip it into).
Some of it has spread though, and people don't even realise it's cockney rhyming slang. For instance, "berk" is a harmless and widely used mild insult, a bit like "jerk" in the US. It's actually short for "Berkshire Hunt" and I don't think it'd be ladylike to tell you what that rhymes with so I'll leave it with you...
Anyway, I'll s0d off now and stop droning on. Off topic as well, it's disgraceful! Sorry. Louweasel
"I grew up in Europe, where the history comes from" [Eddie Izzard]
"she might not look like much, kid, but she's got it where it counts"
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Thanks Louweasal - and the best posts often are OT! "In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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Originally posted by wflaschka This is because yankees will only speak for themselves. They've learned this hard lesson. If yankees attempt to speak for the South, we will rise up and smite them again. And it won't be as friendly as last time.
/transplanted yankee Then you, amongst your southern peers at least, probably refer to the civil war as "The War of Northern Aggression"
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Originally posted by Artisan Then you, amongst your southern peers at least, probably refer to the civil war as "The War of Northern Aggression" Indeed! The yanks should know that, in addition to our other weapons, we have mastered the back-flick.
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Originally posted by jeff Louweasel, you guessed at it, it's from our Civil War: "Yankee" or "Yank" was used to describe the Northerners, as "Rebels" or "Rebs" was used as a name for the Southerners. Due to the way history has unfolded since then, the US hasn't completely "gotten over" the conflict (as witness wflaschka's post. Joking I hope!) It's as if Britons were still getting upset over Cromwell, or the Matilda and Stephen wars. Anyway, Southerners don't like being called by the name associated with their enemy in the Civil War....
I almost *never* can figure out Cockney rhyming slang. Or UK style crosswords, either. Actually, the term "Yankee" has been around far longer than since the civil war. It has been around since colonial times, and originaly referred to somebody specifically from New England (particularly ironic given current baseball rivalries), not just a northerner in general.
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You're quite right.... For those who don't follow such things, one of the deepest baseball rivalries is between the Boston Red Sox (geographically "Yankees") and the New York Yankees (not at all Yankees in the traditional sense). One of the little ironies. And, the Red Sox have been operating under a curse for decades, too... "In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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Originally posted by jeff You're quite right.... For those who don't follow such things, one of the deepest baseball rivalries is between the Boston Red Sox (geographically "Yankees") and the New York Yankees (not at all Yankees in the traditional sense). One of the little ironies. And, the Red Sox have been operating under a curse for decades, too... curse, my ***. that is such bs. well, maybe we were cursed. cursed with Tom Yawkey, whose racist views prevented us from signing both Jackie Robinson AND Willie Mays! the Sox had first crack at BOTH of them!
Its THE biggest rivalry in American sports. Few others come anywhere near it. Celtics Sixers is the basketball equivalent, but nowhere near the same.
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Well, I was referring to the Curse of Babe Ruth, but, I don't take it (or baseball) seriously. Passed on both Robinson and Mays? Wow, that's some track record. Sheesh.
Boy, are we off-topic, huh? "In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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Originally posted by Gav Yes, and I'm sure that an African tribesman living on the Plains of Africa who has to deal with civil war, famine, plague etc would be equally annoyed by a black American asserting this to them. In my experience, most Africans are faintly amused by it instead of annoyed. ( So are blacks from other places, such as Panama and the Caribbean, most of who display, as a result of their lack of the experience of American racism and culture, a refreshing absence of the chips so many "African-Americans" seem to have had grafted to their shoulders. )
More to the point, however, the particular sort of African you describe probably has no time for ruminating about the situational ethos of black Americans and would probably just shrug at being told of that particular pretension, I think.
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Thank you for calling me a genius, but I'm not really a genius, but I'm fairly close to one, my iq is only 121 approximately, in some tests i have scored higher. More MORE importantly, she declared.....pizza for one, and pizza for all!!!
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Originally posted by Louweasel although I admit if you gave me a pin, a blank outline of the USA and said, say, "north dakota" I'd not get very far...)
Don't worry. Give most Americans a pin, a blank outline of the US, and say "North Dakota", and they'll be lost. But that's okay with us. For those that do actually find their way up...well, our say is "Thirty below keeps the riff-raff out." And with weather like that, just imagine what winter gets like! It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protestor to burn the flag. - Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC
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Originally posted by Swordsman For those that do actually find their way up...well, our say is "Thirty below keeps the riff-raff out." And with weather like that, just imagine what winter gets like! Is that a fahrenheit temperature? I should admit that degrees fahrenheit mean precisely two thirds of the square root of f**k all to me, but I'm assuming it's cold. I can sympathise with you a bit as I did live in St Petersburg from September through to May a few years ago, and it dipped well below minus 20 celsius which was quite an experience. But I only had to survive one winter of it so you have my deepest sympathy.
You've helped locate north dakota a bit for me now, anyway, as I always mix up the dakotas and the carolinas and now I think that the dakotas must be the ones up at the top somewhere while the carolinas are the ones down a bit on the right...  (and my mother's a geography teacher! )
Sod this, I'm going to have to find an atlas now... Louweasel
"I grew up in Europe, where the history comes from" [Eddie Izzard]
"she might not look like much, kid, but she's got it where it counts"
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