digital camera

[MSUFENCER]

Ok im looking into getting a digital camera, I was wondering who out there has them, im looking into it for fencing use. I keep seeing all of the shutter speeds and am wondering what i would need for fencing shots. well if you have any input let me know
thanks

[darius]

Depends on what you want to do. If you're going to just take pictures of your friends at tournaments, and don't need action shots, a digital camera is fine.

I own a Kodak DC4800; It's great for landscapes, nature macro work, and goofing off with friends. But for action, it's nearly useless, unless the motion-blur aesthetic is what I'm selling.

If you're talking about pro-quality sports shots, you have too options: 1) spend, or 2) don't go digital.

Fencing is fast action in poorly-lit venues, and you can't use a flash. Which is basically Photographers' Hell, or really fun, depending on your outlook.

Aperture is really the key thing you're looking for -- allowing lots of light in will mean you can have a faster shutter speed. f/4 won't cut it unless you've got a pretty good bankroll for film development -- I've gotten some great action shots with a 70-210, f/4, but for every good one, there's about 1.5 rolls of film shot. f/2.8 will increase your sharpness, and your odds, incredibly.

The Canon D-30 and Olympus E-20 are good starting points, but those cameras will cost around $1200, whereas a film-based Canon Elan will be about $300. That $900 will go a long way towards buying nice lenses for a film camera.

darius

[Katman]

I took a digital camera with me to a tournament to see how it'd work out. Great for friends and team shots, horrible for action shots. What's worse is I was photographing sabre bouts and this camera had a two second delay. I'd just have to click the button when I heard the director say 'fence' and follow the fencers around, hoping for something. I got nothing. :P

[wlc]

I have an Olympus C2040z which I like for everything except fencing action photos. The biggest problem is the shutter delay, which is over 1 second. Nearly all my photos of indoor action are blurred. I have yet to get a single fencing action shot that I liked.

This is a nice mid-range consumer digital camera for everything else. I'd also like to know if anyone has found a digital camera under $1000 that works for indoor action.

[D'Artagnan1673]

Darius,

The crazy thing is that I understood what you are talking about

My Elan 7e should be in by next week. More light, less shutter time = clearer picture (right?)

[darius]

More light, less shutter time = clearer picture (right?)

"Clarity" is not really a measurable concept.

It's important to remember that the amount of light put on a film surface is cumulative, over time. So theoretically, I could expose a piece of film to the same amount of light at night as I could during the day -- the shutter would just have to be held open (way) longer.

The longer you hold your shutter open, the more chance for blur. So, yes, less shutter time potentially equals a clearer picture. But sharpness can also be attributed to the size of the halide (higher ISO=thicker grain) and optical quality (not all glass is created equal).

Lenswise, most sports photographers swear by a 70-210mm, f/2.8. They're pricey, though, on the order of $1200 new!

Lisa Slater, who was (almost) singlehandedly responsible for all of American Fencing's photos until last year, shot with a manual focus camera, and fixed (no zoom!) lenses. But her glass always had apertures of f/2.8, f/2, etc.

Congrats on the purchase -- I have an Elan 2 (no E: I can select my focus points with my hands, thank you very much!), and it's a great camera which will be getting a sick workout in Alaska in a few weeks...

darius

[D'Artagnan1673]

Well, I doubt I will use the E. My fiancee ordered the camera for me. Of the two of us, she knows more about photography than I do. We are starting a photography business so we don't have to eat Ramen noodles for dinner every night

[darius]

We are starting a photography business so we don't have to eat Ramen noodles for dinner every night

I hope the irony of that statement is not lost on you.

[D'Artagnan1673]

What irony? Forgive my ignorance, but I often miss humourous little things such as this.

[SäbelFechter]

I've got a Nikon Coolpix 4300 digital camera and have managed to get some good action shots with it. I use the manual setting so there's no flash and it automatically increases it's sensitivity to light and provides a shutter speed of around 1/60 to 1/125 of a second (which is similar to what I get with my film camera). Blurring can be a problem, particulary with sabre, but sometimes it looks good.

The bigger problem with digital cameras, as mentioned earlier, is the delay between pressing the button and the picture being taken. You have to sort of anticipate what is going to happen before it actually does if you want a photo of it. As a result, you end up with a lot of pictures taken after the action is over. Fortunately, you can just delete those off the camera's memory card and try again.

[graphixaddict]

||What irony? Forgive my ignorance, but I often miss humourous little things such as this.||

D, hes talking about the fact that most photographers live on ramen noodles because their poor. I am a photography major in school, so i will prolly end up eating alot of ramen noodles, hopefully not though. well see, as for the question on buying a digital camera, MSU can you give us an estimate on how much your willing to spend? then ill tell you what will work for you.
Graphix

[MSUFENCER]

at most im looking to spend around $500

[veeco]

Originally posted by wlc

This is a nice mid-range consumer digital camera for everything else. I'd also like to know if anyone has found a digital camera under $1000 that works for indoor action.

I have the Olympus E-10 and I have managed to get some pretty decent action shots with it. I paid something around $1080 with taxes for it and it's a great camera. I love it. You still have the issue of the shutter delay, though it's not too bad compared to other digital cameras I have tried in the past. I think the delay is something like 100ms (according to this page: http://www.steves-digicams.com/e10.html)

The aperture range is from f2.0 to f11 which is pretty good and you can set the shutter speed from anywhere in between 2" to 1/640

[Headless]

My brother and i share a digital vidio cammera. Its great you can tape the whole bout then on the computer you can slow it way down or pause it and take one bit of it and save it as a photo. The best thing is, is that even if you take the pictures out you still have the vidio just as it was before you changed it all around-mabey! I'll have to get back to yall with what brand it isbut that is it for now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[graphixaddict]

i dont think you will get what you want at that price, what i would do, is get the cheapest canon body you can, like the rebel g, $130 on ebay, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=15235 then i would spend the other $350 on a awesome lense. like a 100mm, or 200 mm, f2.0.... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh2.sph/...ID=F578DAC4190

Film is the only way you will get what your looking for, use a high speed film, ISO 1600, or 3200 film http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh2.sph/...ID=F578DAC4190 thats for a 20 roll pack.

[darius]

Kodak MAX 800 works fine for me -- grain is a way of life in fencing action shots, and I don't mind it -- properly stylized, but I've used several different 1000 and 1600 speed films, all of which have been unsatisfactory when blown up to 8x10.

Really, the big aperture is what you want...a high speed film can compensate, but only so much before it looks like complete crap.

darius

[las]

I just saw may name mentioned by Daruis and appreciate the nod to my photographic work for fencing. I'm hoping he's taken over my spot and making sure fencers get good press, especially the WF. Fencers need photos!

He's right in saying that I always used a manual camera (Pentax or Nikon) , fast film (400, 800+), and good, fast glass (f1.8- 2.8 max). It was, and probably still is, the easiest way to photograph sports action in the limited environments such as a fencing tournaments. Plus, if the battery died- who cared! They are rugged and dependable camera systems worth their weight in gold.

But, since I've reached the age where my eyesight is changing, I have recently purchased a new auto-focus camera, a Minolta Maxxum 7. I've been extremely happy with it and since it's flexible enough to allow total manual control, even manual focus on the fly, I can always revert back to my old techniques.
The Maxxum flash, while not used for fencing action, is very sophisticated. Auto focus works well in very low light.

Someone asked me if I had higher % better frames with the new camera than with the old. I had to honestly reply that I didn't, but that I had shot a lot more frames. The motor drive, while not super quick, is fast enough to burn a lot of film in a very short time. A manual camera makes you more discerning when choosing the frames to be shot.

The consumer digitial cameras are really hard to use to get the same kind of action shots. (They suck) I'll say at times, it's impossible, depending on the lighting. I'm almost never happy with the results. Shutter-lag is variable and difficult to get used to especially when my finger knows exactly how long 1/125 sec. is.

Still, there's the scanning of traditional film negatives to deal with, certainly a factor to pay attention to if you're shooting and sharing lots of images.

I've started to use more Fuji film and find it very satisfactory. I like the 1600 ISO VERY much. I've experimented with Konica's faster films, 400, 800 and for the price (esp. through B&H), it's worth a try.

If you're wondering what I'm doing now, I'm both playing and photographing squash. Nearly the same kinds of environments as fencing, fast action, no flash, better lighting.

Now, if only my name would appear in the water cooler section under 'Hot Babes', or something....! (humor alert)

Take care all, good luck at Nationals.

[darius]

Hi, Lisa!!!

Thanks for the tip -- I'll have to try the Fuji 1600; do you use Superia or the Professional 1600?

If my raise comes through I'll probably be able to afford a fast prime -- I'm trying to decide between 100, 135, and 200mm focal lengths...

I've started to use more Fuji film and find it very satisfactory.

The men in black are probably knocking on your office door now...

darius