need experienced epee advice

[remise]

I'm hoping to impose a bit on the experienced epee fencers here - I had the good fortune to fence a wonderful epee fencer from out of town who was very quick and had very forceful lunges. I was virtually powerless against them. Because I'm short, I've been learning how to take the blade, but I was beaten to a pulp. Can anyone share some advice for when you're older, and not as fast? Also, how does one defend against an opponent who throws his entire body into the lunge, but can withdraw quickly?

[D'Artagnan1673]

Perhaps you are looking for advice from someone more experienced than myself, but I will try.

- Maintain plenty of distance unless you intend to attack.

- on the flip side, throw him out of whack by closing distance and put such a fencer in a position where he/she is not comfortable. Perhaps this fencer is good at holding you back and lunging, but can he handle infighting?

- Epeeists who lunge very deep put themselves in a dangerous position against a fencer who can effectively stop hit. Practice htting to the arm as your opponent lunges. Where does he attack to? The arm or more to the body? Does he lean too much, leaving his mask as a pretty target for counter attack?

- Try maintaing a more aggresive position as your post makes me think that this fencer is quite comfortable maintaing aggression. Make his impatience hurt with nice counterattacks to vulnerable points.

Hope this helps.

[Lemberg]

D'Art is right, many guys who are effective at a ongdistance are uncomfortable at close quarters where they have to draw their hand far back in order to hit/parry. So if you can make himmiss his lunge or just pull in close w/o being stop hit, you should be able to be more effective.

[fencingguy]

If you are fencing someone who is hitting you with long, powerful lunges, there are a number of different options. Most of them will depend on how the person you are fencing is setting them up and what they are doing to execute them (ie with opposition, feint disengage, direct attack, etc...)

The first thing to do is to keep a longer distance. By staying out of range you limit your opponent's opportunities to hit you. This also gives you more time to react to his attacks. Believe me, nothing is more frustrating that being tall and being unable to reach a short person who keeps pulling distance at the right time. You may even get him thinking "If I just go a little bit harder, or a little faster, I'll get there."

The next step is to limit the opportunities for his attack to the times you want him to. This is easier than it sounds. Step one is figuring out when he is attacking. Is it when you step forward, at a certain distance, when you present your blade? Or a combination of factors? If you can figure out what the moment is, you can replicate it at will so that you are ready for the attack that will follow instead of being caught off guard.

You now can work to draw the attack. Change the distance by moving in and out (be aware of the changes). Harass your opponent with shots to the hand and short feints to the body. ALl the while being ready to respond with your selected action.

Now you have to choose your action. What are you going to do to respond to this lunge? This is the part that depends on your opponent. His action will determine your response. If he is just doing a straight lunge you can respond with a simple parry riposte. I'm guessing it's more complicated than that, however. If he is making a compound attack (preparation, followed by the core action) look for the opportunity to step into the preparation, hitting him before he can even start the attack. If you can't find that moment, another good time to score is in his recovery: Immediately after he has finished his lunge (assuming you made him fall short) fleche into his recovery (don't actually parry him on this, it will keep him alert, you want to hit him in the moment that he relaxes his mind). These are probably the simplest, and most easily executable actions. To get a little more advanced:

Pull distance and counter attack to the wrist.

Execute a yielding parry as he attacks and step in as you guide his point gently past you.

Deny him the lunge entirely by refusing to provide an opportunity for his attack.


Hopefully some of this helps you out. After training for a while you'll start to find some actions like this that you find more aptitude for and the decision making process on which to execute becomes faster and faster, to the point where you don't even need to think about it.

Good Luck!!!

[a517dogg]

leave your point next to his wrist or around tehre. you use his speed againsth im. when he starts to do his powerful lunge, you angle your point into his bellguard, so that he basically impales himself onyour point.

[135711]

while not an expert a few things come to mind; and also a question for fencingguy.

1. first thought was: when someone new comes to town [sorta like matt dillion gunning for you], they're going to put a lot into their fencing to show you what they know, and to defend their ratings. That's where the psychology comes in.

I also had to fence several very tall epeeists, and it was a great expereince; I learned a lot, two of them fence very smart, they have more experience - they know how to fence the strip and change the rhythm and pace - the other newer female epeeist, over 6'0 is very graceful, but she's not as strong; once she gets the strength in her legs, we can only pray.

In fencing these people, I try not to be too athletic; you have to fence smart and keep away from them, their blade and what can I say "find the line, find the space, things will tell you their name"
-suszanne vegas

Think Calypso

[pammie003]

Personally, being a tall epeeist, I agree with all that his been said. I've really been working on my infighting, because I know it's not my strong point. There's a really short guy at the club who just closes the distance on me and makes me uncomfortable... then I back up, and eventually run out of space

Another thing that I think would be quite effective: on a big lunge, step into it with a parry, then riposte. I am expecting my opponent to step away when I attack, so this would probably throw me off completely!

[D'Artagnan1673]

One infighting technique that I use is that I push off with my feet and move my torso away from my opponent while I bring my arm back to impale my opponent.

[Jupiter]

pammie003; that's nice of you to tell us the secret and i agree with you, that's standard procedure, but, the taller you are the more muscle you have per square inch, it's tougher to parry the big people; small fries have to be pretty strong to knock a blade from you; what about a press under the blade going for a double touch?

[a517dogg]

The longer your arms are the harder it is to put force on the blade, simple leverage. Thus, shorter people do have that advantage going for them. YOu just have to figurte out how to use it.

[pammie003]

the taller you are the more muscle you have per square inch, it's tougher to parry the big people; small fries have to be pretty strong to knock a blade from you

Sounds good, but sadly, although I'm tall, I'm also tiny. Those small 5'4'' or so people sadly often weigh the same that I do... I don't often have the upper hand in the muscle departement. But, like I said, I know this infighting thing is my weakness and I'm working on ways to deal with it.

[Jupiter]

I see, now I know more, thin bones for tall people, I had no idea it would be a disadvantage. Thanks for the advice.

[lfortier]

Well, I'll try giving advice (I'm 5'9'' so I rarely have this problem) but I find that staying out of his distance or reach untill he makes a misteak helps. Also, if you know for a fact that ya cant defend against an EXTREMELY powerful and fast lunge/attack- Get the heck out of his way! jump back by all means, and perhaps then if the lunge falls short, quickly take his blade (maybe circle 6 or parry 4?) and, it IS true that us tall people HATE fencing in close quarters where you hafta withdrawl your hand. hope this helps

[a517dogg]

5'9" isnt' tall for epee. I'm 5'11" and I am usually the shorter fencer at national events.

When you take distance parry, you don't usually even have to take the blade when you riposte because alot of fencers start their recovery with their arm before their legs, meaning that for a period of time they are in the lunge but with their arm bent.

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by a517dogg
5'9" isnt' tall for epee. I'm 5'11" and I am usually the shorter fencer at national events.

but you're not 14. lfortier is.

-m

[a517dogg]

Yeah well I bet he's done growing. For good. Sucks to be him. I'm never wrong. It's 2.30am and i have been awake for 36 hours. Shoot me.

[fencingguy]

Originally posted by 135711
while not an expert a few things come to mind; and also a question for fencingguy.

1. first thought was: when someone new comes to town [sorta like matt dillion gunning for you], they're going to put a lot into their fencing to show you what they know, and to defend their ratings. That's where the psychology comes in.

I also had to fence several very tall epeeists, and it was a great expereince; I learned a lot, two of them fence very smart, they have more experience - they know how to fence the strip and change the rhythm and pace - the other newer female epeeist, over 6'0 is very graceful, but she's not as strong; once she gets the strength in her legs, we can only pray.

In fencing these people, I try not to be too athletic; you have to fence smart and keep away from them, their blade and what can I say "find the line, find the space, things will tell you their name"
-suszanne vegas

Think Calypso

Was there a question here????

[DangerMouse]

While all the relpys saying to keep more distance are well and good, if he is a smart fencer, he won't attack when you're out of distance. Eventually, you'll run out of space and he'll hit the same attack because he can close the distance first.

It sounds like the problem is more that you are reacting to what he is doing rather than making him do what you want (easier said than done). You may want to try second intention. Make a short attack to the hand or give him a half advance so he feels the distance has closed to where he can hit you with his lunge. Then run away. Fast. As soon as he finishes his lunge, you should be done running away by now and have your feet planted, lunge or fleche while he is recovering. You also may be able to get a parry while running away.

If he just stands there when you make your short attack, finish it deep and hit him.

If he backs up when you make your short attack, take the ground and try again. Eventually he will run out of space.

Good Luck

-DM

[lfortier]

Originally posted by a517dogg
Yeah well I bet he's done growing. For good. Sucks to be him. I'm never wrong.

CORRECTION- You ARE wrong! Everyone in my family is atleast 5'11 and my doctor says I'm going to grow 2-3 inches TALLER in the next year, plus I'm thin, which is a real advantage against girls (like ME!) whom don't normally get to be my size! And I want to repeatedly roll my eyes at you

[whtouche]

lfortier, Im pretty sure a517dogg was joking...