Big Book of Fencing: In Part or In Whole?

[corinna2u]

For those that consider the Big Book of Fencing to be THE beginner book...is there any part that you disagree with? An instruction? An illustration? The reasons given to do something a certain way? Etc...

[wflaschka]

I had the biggest problems with Volkmann's chapter on parries.

First off, they're presented individually, as if a fencer has time to see an attack, and then select from a full-screen menu of 40 different parries (including flying detatched whatevers that end in a 'dig').

The parry chapter could possibly have been represented as a system, or as a hierarchy of possibilities that helpfully constrain you to 1 or 2 choices per situation. Parries are not just hand positions; they're fluid postures that you're always entering or exiting, and one parry flows into the other based on situational distance. I got no sense of this from the book. I should reread it.

Secondly: That parry 4 (and 7) looks very odd to me. Why bend the elbow, break the wrist, point at the sky, parry 3 inches from your own target? Why use muscle at all? Simply roll the thumb from 12:00 to 10:00 (for righties); if the hand is cocked correctly, the blade moves its required 6 inches, intersects the opponent's blade far away from you, and your hand is still in line for a straight extension.

Szabo would say that the picture of Volkmann's parry 7 is an Italian mezzocerchio (French septime taken higher with more extended arm).

These are minor points. Still... if the parries look worrisome, what else am I taking as gospel but shouldn't? I'm mostly in awe at the body of knowledge represented.

[corinna2u]

That is why I started this thread. I wanted to know the disagreements with the book so I could be open minded and investigative. I don't want to learn something the wrong way only to have someone correct me a year later after I have ingrained it. It is a lot harder to change something after a year of repeating it. I'd rather know from the start.

I did notice that about the parries. We have about a 1000sq ft basement with most of it turned over to exercise and fencing. We have decided to make a felt board for one of the basement walls so we can do a flow chart for the offensive - defensive movements. Kinda like: if fencer A does this movement, what are the counter movements for fencer B, what are the results, etc. I thought it would help with two things: 1. Know all the possibilities for a given situation. 2. Think through, off the strip, what would be the best action based on my strengths and weaknesses.

[Gav]

That is why I started this thread. I wanted to know the disagreements with the book so I could be open minded and investigative. I don't want to learn something the wrong way only to have someone correct me a year later after I have ingrained it. It is a lot harder to change something after a year of repeating it. I'd rather know from the start.

I did notice that about the parries. We have about a 1000sq ft basement with most of it turned over to exercise and fencing. We have decided to make a felt board for one of the basement walls so we can do a flow chart for the offensive - defensive movements. Kinda like: if fencer A does this movement, what are the counter movements for fencer B, what are the results, etc. I thought it would help with two things: 1. Know all the possibilities for a given situation. 2. Think through, off the strip, what would be the best action based on my strengths and weaknesses.

No book should be taken as gospel. Some fencing books are better than others. I like the Big Book because of the wealth of information available - particularly the armoury section. All good for the newbie fencer. Training manuals should be used to complement your training not restrict you. In Fencing there is no substitute for experience and decent coaching.

The flow chart is a good idea in principle. However I warn you not get too bogged down in thinking each situation. You really cannot say if Fencer a does this then fencer b should do x. If it was that easy then all manuals would revolve around that concept and fencing would be as interesting as tic-tac-toe. I would suggest a more high level approach and focus on general information:

• Illustrations
• terminiology
• Anecdotes
• Good quality general advice (maintain balance, develop your footwork etc)

Good luck with it! If you can put it in electronic format then send me a copy!

[Craig]

I look at the fencing manuals in the same way that chess manuals teach you about the game.

In any good chess book, they highlight the concept and technique. (How to recognize that you can "pin" an opponent's piece.) Once the concept/technique is taught, they then provide exercises to help with your recognition.

What they don't do is teach the linear "If your opponent moves his pawn here, then here is your best move".

I approach fencing the same way. Learn the moves and how to apply them, then set up situations that call for you to use those moves to understand how they fit into the tactical game.

Flowcharting is a decent exercise for brainstorming your bout strategy, but the vast number of options that you have once you know a large number of techniques can get you bogged down quickly.

Cheers,
Craig