Fencing Pains? Can they be helped/stopped?

[Sarah]

Ok, I bet that everyone has had some type of physical pain due to fencing. (I'm not talking about mental or emotional pains, they're different. ) I know that I have had certain problems caused by fencing.

I think that these are some common problems:
- knee pains
- foot callaces
- hand calaces
- neck pains
- back aches

I know that some are caused by improper footwork and/or improper placement of body movement. (if you understand what I'm saying, then good for you!! Because I have no clue. lol) And these pains/problems can be easily fixed. But others are hard to prevent. I was hoping that people can share what they do to fix their problems. Thanks!

[Catlady]

The only thing I can say is if you're consistenly hurting in an area, and it's not just the discomfort from using new muscles, have your coach or someone more experienced watch you and see if you're posture or execution is wrong.

My theory on backaches is to strengthen my stomach muscle more. That may be an idea--that is that if a muscle hurts you strengthen the one that complements it.
I don't know though.

I'll leave the advice to those with more physical therapy knowledge than I have. Though I know several fencers who use some kind of homeopathic remedy that I believe is called arnica for sore muscles. I don't use it though, and am somewhat skeptical about that kind of thing, though one of the people I fence with is training to be a homeopathic physician, so I can't say how it works.

[AndrewH]

Most of the ones you mentioned are inevitable- knee pains, backaches, after a tournament/long practice your muscles will certainly be sore. Knee braces perhaps?

As for the callouses, perhaps they are caused by improper footwork, but they're far from uncommon. Look at it this way- after you've been fencing for awhile, your feet are protected because of the callouses! Actually one person I remember recommended wearing 2 pairs of socks to ease the friction on your feet.

Catlady, I've used arnica before, for some unrelated injuries. It does work, if you get the tablets and take them a couple times a day. Although, in a pinch, Advil works just fine too

[Peach]

Lessee, what have I had . . .

Knee pain--strengthen thighs, make sure my knee is not past my front foot when I lunge, and work on correct form.

Elbow pain--avoid taking the blade, quit fencing foil and epee, take up sabre, and work on correct form, especially when taking seconde, which puts torque on elbow.

Thumb knuckle pain--stop fencing Dave who keeps thwocking my thumb and buy one of those handy tools for opening jars.

Pain on top of foot--re-thread the laces on my fencing shoes so they don't cross my instep in the middle.

Ankle pain--try everything from high-top shoes to Ace bandages, quit running, take up bicycling, then discover that arch supports solve the problem. Go figure.

Broken finger--ignore. It's on my back hand so it doesn't matter.

Shooting pains in front leg when I lunge--go to doctors, get MRIs, X-rays, get told what I already know, that I have a bit of sciatica; go through physical therapy; quit running permanently; fix lunge and work on correct form.

Shooting pains in back foot, lumps in plantar fascia--get orthotics, physical therapy, teach husband how to massage my feet. Fix position of back foot in lunge. Work on correct form.

Blinding pain in shoulder--curse days spent as a softball catcher, apply huge ice packs, rest, correct position of arm in lunge, work on correct form.

Consider taking up some other sport. Dismiss idea. Continue to work on correct form.

[a517dogg]

skinned and broken knuckles.

[Sarah]

Knee Pains:
Probably caused from over-lunging.

Fix it by-
Practicing correct lunging and footwork.

Back Aches:
Caused from fencing. Unfixable.

[Wizardly]

Callouses/blisters on the fingers:
I tape them. Make sure it's not so tight that you cut off the circulation when you grip the foil. I've gone home with holes in my fingers from a long day at a tourney, and this seemed to help that quite effectively.

On the feet:

Two socks. I used to have VERY bad problems with this. Once tore a 1 inch diameter blood blister on the ball of my foot from a very fast retreat-lunge. Had to withdraw.

If not quite enough, tape again

[Sildar]

Originally posted by Sarah
Knee Pains:
Probably caused from over-lunging.

Fix it by-
Practicing correct lunging and footwork.

Back Aches:
Caused from fencing. Unfixable.

One of the most common fencing problems I see in terms of things that cause knee and back pain is overdoing lunges; particularly throwing all of your body weight onto the front leg in the full lunge. This may be caused and/or exacerbated by leaning forward with your upper body when you lunge. Try to keep your torso mostly upright in your lunge; a slight/natural forward inclination of the torso in the lunge is fine, but you shouldn't feel like your chest is just above your thigh.

In short I don't think back pain is necessarily an unavoidable part of fencing. You may have some soreness from long and intense training sessions, but there shouldn't be sharp pains to particular parts of the back; those usually mean there's some motion you're making that you shouldn't be doing.

[rory]

Back Aches: Unfixable
Not necessarily. I used to suffer from major fencing-related pain. Went to see the British Ilympic team physio, Herman Fenton, at a comp one year; simple cause.

Cause:
Inner thigh muscle strength << quadricep strength, thus straining my lumbar.

Solution:
Sitting on the edge of my bed, and squeezing a basketball between my knees every night to strengthen my inner thighs.
e.g.

- 5 long squeezes with feet about a foot apart

- 5 long squeees with feet one foot-width apart

- 5 long squeezes with feet together

Every night. And some easy stretching.
Problem (largely) solved.

Apparently it's a common problem with fencers and weight lifters, who have overdeveloped quads.

[remise]

I have horrendous arthritis, and I was told to 'keep moving' in order to keep my joints from locking up. Other veteran fencers look at the knuckles on my hands and say,"Oh my God, how do you do this?", but when you live with arthritis, pain is relative. I have the most problems in my knees. I simply can't duck, and even outside of fencing, stooping is difficult.

I have to take it a day at a time. Some days I can make certain moves and do them fine....other days that same move might be out of the question.

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Catlady
[b]My theory on backaches is to strengthen my stomach muscle more. That may be an idea--that is that if a muscle hurts you strengthen the one that complements it.
I don't know though.[b]

This may be a bad idea. frequently, increased strengthening of abs without corresponding strengthening of the back will make back injury MORE likely. You need to keep complementary muscle groups in proportion!

-m

[FoilyGeezer]

The most important way to stop lower back pain is to make sure you are fully warmed up and stretched BEFORE you start fencing. Lots of slow hip bends and twists will limber up the muscles and lower the potential for back pain.

Excercising your stomach is indeed not going to help, and may well make worse a lower back problem since it will create an imbalance (which probably alread exists since you have lower back pain). There are some very good yoga stretches that do a fairly good job of isolating the lower back muscles but doing hyperextensions and good-mornings are the only way I know of to really hit them hard enough to build serious strength. Excercising your obiques will help to some degree as well since it's hard to do obliques without involving lower back anyway.

[KBayDog]

The most important stretching is done AFTER your fencing. Indeed, warm up, SLOOOOOOWLY stretch, fence....but then ensure you SLOOOOOOOWLY stretch your entire body afterwards. "Static stretching" is the key - SLOOOOOOWLY stretch your muscles to their limit, hold it, then relax. Repeat.

DO NOT engage in "ballistic stretching," which is the bouncing-type stretches you see some people doing. Aside from the serious risk of damaging your soft tissue, this type of stretching is actually counter-productive: You have a "stretching reflex," whereby the muscles realize that they are about to be (over) stretched, so they contract. Not good.

Engage in flexibility training as often as possible. Increasing your range of motion in each joint will minimize the chance of soft-tissue injuries.

Strength training is your friend! Light weights, high repetitions in order to strengthen your joints. To strengthen your lower back, all you have to do is lie prone on the ground, and arch your legs and head up to the ceiling (making a "U" shape with your body). A few times a day should do the trick.

Inflammation is unavoidable in physical activity, particularly with a high-impact activity like fencing. Its effects can be lessened, though:

ICE the area. Avoid the temptation to get in a hot tub after a long day of fencing. (The warm temps increase inflammation).

NSAIDS (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs), such as ibuprofen, nabumetone (Rx), indomethacin (Rx), etc. will help lower the inflammation. Always take the recommended dosage!

Lastly, if your discomfort is acute pain (not the usual aches we all get from a good workout), seek medical attention IMMEDIATELY!


The doctor is always in...

[3ngu4rd]

<font size=2 face="arial">I recommend weight training, flexablility, stretching and other sports (cross training) is probably a really good idea. It helps build strength in other areas as well as the muscles you use to fence, and that can greatly reduce your chances of getting injured.
"Quality, not quantity." Remember that. You don't have to kill your self by working really really hard if you practice doing everything right.

The four parts to any sport are:
Physiological
Mental
Tactical
Technical

If you have physiological and technical down, the other two will just come. Just do everything right that you can and make sure you take care of yourself.

[morpheus]

Originally posted by epeemike81
This may be a bad idea. frequently, increased strengthening of abs without corresponding strengthening of the back will make back injury MORE likely. You need to keep complementary muscle groups in proportion!

-m

Not true - I had bad lower back pains for about 15 years; a doctor long ago told me strengthen the abdominal muscles, I ignored this advice until around 12 years ago, then I (a) dropped excess weight, and (b) started doing situps like crazy every morning, and am still doing them. This completely cured my back pains. The key, as explained by that doctor long ago, is that the abs hold the spine in the proper position.

[corinna2u]

There is actually an explanation for both theories of thought:

Certain abdominal exercises aggravate certain back conditions.
But, certain abdominal exercises improve certain back conditions.

Alas, usually back care professionals take one side or the other - they either say yes, do them or no, do not do ab exercises.

The trick is knowing which exercises for which conditions.

[FoilyGeezer]

Originally posted by morpheus
Not true - I had bad lower back pains for about 15 years; a doctor long ago told me strengthen the abdominal muscles, I ignored this advice until around 12 years ago, then I (a) dropped excess weight, and (b) started doing situps like crazy every morning, and am still doing them. This completely cured my back pains. The key, as explained by that doctor long ago, is that the abs hold the spine in the proper position.

First off. situps do little or nothing for your abs. They are primarily a lower back excercise. Second of all the excess weight is a very common cause of back pain. Most excercise physiologists and trainers have shied away from situps as a good excercise due to the concentrated stresses they put on your lower lumbar region when done improperly. However once you've achieve a certain level of proficiency they can be very good.

Your abdominal muscles are attached to your ribs. You can make your abs as strong as you like and it won't help your back a bit. Nor will it give you a flat stomach. Your stomach is flattened by your obliques which run from the back of your ribcage to your abdomnials and essentially pull them like you'd pull the opposite ends of a sheet. Most oblique excercises work your lower back to some degree by sheer proximity. The only excercises that work your lower back with fairly good isolation and fairly low impact are types of hyperextensions. The muscles of the lower back are attched to the back of your ribcage and therefore are critical in keeping your back aligned. The stronger these muscles are the harder you have to work to mess up your back.

[a517dogg]

the best thing to correct back pain is to have a correct en garde.

my coach fixed my en garde a year ago, plus i went to an alexander technique specialist, and i haven't had back pain since, either from fencing or in general, because my en garde is good.

[Sarah]

I have a correct en garde but I still get back pains... I think it's me. Oh, well. I expect to be messed up when I'm older anyway... lol!

[Sigurd]

I am not very flexable, and whenever I do a lunge of any signifigant length, it usually hurts, or feels unpleasant. I've been having pains on my thighs and quadracepts...does anyone have a reccomended stretches that could help me lunge further and without pain? Also...my coach says that one guard position should be unconfortable, because it means you're doing it right. Do most people get used to the discomfort?