Marking off a strip

[Fencer91162]

>
>One place I fence wants to mark off some strips for a competition. The
>only thing is they are not allowed to put down any type of tape - really
>bad job of polyurithane. One suggestion was to use a chalk-plumb to mark
>the area off. Then use a damp cloth to wipe up the chalk when done.
>
>Are there any others?
>
>-Joseph
>
>--
>Amy and Joseph Kormann
>
Not even the tape that painters tape? It's less tacky than traditional masking
tape... I think a chalk line would be long gone before the competition was
done...

Debbie B.

[Wolf]

> >One place I fence wants to mark off some strips for a competition. The
> >only thing is they are not allowed to put down any type of tape - really
> >bad job of polyurithane. One suggestion was to use a chalk-plumb to mark
> >the area off. Then use a damp cloth to wipe up the chalk when done.
> >
> >Are there any others?

> Not even the tape that painters tape? It's less tacky than traditional
masking
> tape... I think a chalk line would be long gone before the competition
was
> done...
>
> Debbie B.

Heck, even painter's tape is mostly gone by the end of a competition.
-Bill

[Fencerbill]

In article <3E9DF03E.8060509@monmouth.com>, Amy & Joseph Kormann
<ajkormann@monmouth.com> writes:

>One place I fence wants to mark off some strips for a competition. The
>only thing is they are not allowed to put down any type of tape - really
>bad job of polyurithane. One suggestion was to use a chalk-plumb to mark
>the area off. Then use a damp cloth to wipe up the chalk when done.
>
>Are there any others?

There are some tapes that are extremely floor friendly.

One is called Gaffers Tape and we buy ours at theatrical supply houses. We have
been allowed to use it on a brand new varnished floor and on a brand new gym
floor. It comes in two inch and wider sizes.

Another is called spike tape which usually comes in half inch widths. Look at
the same suppliers.

Ask them if you can put some pieces down in a corner to show them that it won't
adversely affect their floors.

If you do wind up with some residue, citrus cleaners (3M spray in particular)
do a great job of cleanup.

Bill Hall

[Ed Ploy]

Fencerbill wrote:

> Amy & Joseph Kormann <ajkormann@monmouth.com> writes:
>
>>One place I fence wants to mark off some strips for a competition. The
>>only thing is they are not allowed to put down any type of tape - really
>>bad job of polyurithane.


<snip>

> There are some tapes that are extremely floor friendly.
> One is called Gaffers Tape and we buy ours at theatrical supply houses.


<'nother snip>

> Another is called spike tape which usually comes in half inch widths. Look at
> the same suppliers.


<end snip>

Be careful if you use gaffer's tape (which is a 2" wide cloth tape), as
there are different varieties, some with very aggressive adhesive, some
quite light. The lighter adhesive is better, by the way, if you're going
to have your strips marked for more than a couple of days, as the
adhesive can be pulled off the backing of the heavier weight stuff.
Messy messy, requires citrus cleaners...

If you can, specify "dance floor tape" (or any tape that the vendor
recommends for use on dance floors. In theatres a dance floor is a
plastic floor that comes in 5 foot wide rolls x lengths the width of the
stage, and the long seams are taped together. An intrepid (and wealthy)
soul might use such to make pre-rolled strips.....). These tapes have a
lighter weight adhesive that will be less likely to yank the urethane
off the floor (I've seen this happen, and sympathize with the
maintenance crew that has asked for no tape)!

There are actually two kinds of dance floor tape, now that I'm getting
wordy <grin>, the other being a 2" wide vinyl tape similar to electrical
tape that is used a lot on these floors, and which might be really good
to experiment with, as I'd be very surprised if it pulled any finish up,
and should be very tough. It might prove to be tougher than the cloth,
and easier to pick up at the end of the day. If anyone has a preference
for vinyl over cloth tape on their electric foils, s/he may prefer the
vinyl floor tape, and vice versa...

Both of these are pricey if you buy them in single rolls. I'd expect to
pay between US$8 and US$15 (!!!) per roll (depending on the vendor's
discounts), but the rolls are ummmmmmmm..... 100ft.? 200ft.? Should get
3 to 5 strips from a roll.

I've never bought from the manufacturer, but a common mfr of these tapes
is Permacel. Might be worth checking, price and bulk-wise. And if you
don't have a theatrical supply house in your town, all the big ones will
ship with credit card (look in google), or you can check out a
professional photo supply place, although you might pay more. The
production guys at the public access cable station or the community
theatre might be of help.

If you get the 1/2" spike tape, be _sure_ to get the cloth stuff, and
not the duct tape type stuff.... you'll be much happier at cleanup.

All the above tapes are available in various colors, by the way.

As Mr. Hall recommended, test before using. Leave some down over a day
or two, and pull some up right away, to test for adhesive peeling.
Adhesive shouldn't dry out with any of these tapes (not true for duct
tape or masking tape)! And $.02 from a guy who's been down this road, if
the urethane isn't adhering to the floor, the painting contractor should
be asked (read: hauled) back in to make a fix. Unless it was painted in
house... :^(

Thanks for reading... :^)

-Ed Ploy

P.S. and OT: Has anyone experimented with any of those new gummy
pull-and-release adhesives that are made for hainging pictures, etc.
temporarily for use in holding down floor reels? I may try, but wondered
if the wheel had been invented.

[Tim Schofield]

In article <3E9F084B.70705@suscom.net>, Ed Ploy <eNOploySPAM@suscom.net>
writes
>Fencerbill wrote:
>
>> Amy & Joseph Kormann <ajkormann@monmouth.com> writes:
>>
>>>One place I fence wants to mark off some strips for a competition.
>>>The only thing is they are not allowed to put down any type of tape -
>>>really bad job of polyurithane.
>
>
><snip>
>
>> There are some tapes that are extremely floor friendly.
>> One is called Gaffers Tape and we buy ours at theatrical supply houses.
>
>
[new snip]

And a disaster warning - I once found myself helping to clear up at a
competition where they'd used double-sided sticky tape. Obviously, you
can't have a reel of double sided tape unless there's something in
between. In this case it was a bright yellow plastic tape. Whoever used
it had thought that they were sticking bright yellow tape, with a thick
adhesive layer underneath, to the floor. It looked good as a piste
marking.

It was a complete nightmare. The yellow layer peeled off easily, but of
course that left the double-sided sticky layer on the floor. And that
wasn't designed for strength - you could peel off the odd sticky
centimetre, and then it broke. It wouldn't respond to ordinary floor
cleaners, because they couldn't penetrate to the bottom layer and just
made the top layer dirty. When I gave up they were talking about sanding
the floor down...

Tim S.

[Thom Cate]

Amy & Joseph Kormann <ajkormann@monmouth.com> wrote in message news:<3E9DF03E.8060509@monmouth.com>...
> One place I fence wants to mark off some strips for a competition. The
> only thing is they are not allowed to put down any type of tape - really
> bad job of polyurithane. One suggestion was to use a chalk-plumb to mark
> the area off. Then use a damp cloth to wipe up the chalk when done.

I like the idea of using a plumb line in general...but once I think
about it at all, I realize it's madness. The LAST thing we want being
added to a fencing floor is fine powder! I can hear the hamstrings
twanging as they snap....

I've been toying with the idea of water color...it dries hard, but can
be wiped off. Still, watercolors are little more than chalk in
water....so as they dry and are scuffed, I think they'd come up. Most
vexing.

My suggestion: use the ()*&$#*! painter's tape. ASK THEM FIRST!
Tell them you'll test it off to one side of the gym first. Use the
blue stuff, about $30/6 rolls at Home Depot. Comes right up without
bringing finish with it.

TC

--

[Amy & Joseph Kormann]

<snip>

All fine suggestions and I'm going to pick up some painter's tape to
try. The problem is this is at a military installation and they got the
*lowest* bidder to do the work. The last time we put down tape, the
layer of polyurithane came right up. No kidding. Up and away! And that
was simple masking tape for no more than 4 hours. After some
discussions, we promised not to put down tape again on their newly
re-finished floor. I don't know if it's the same contractor again and if
they decided to do the work correctly this time but we don't want to
take chances.

The facility is perfect except for this minor problem. A large wood
floor surrounded by carpeting, tables and chairs with an upstairs
viewing platform.

--
Amy and Joseph Kormann

[Chris Zakes]

On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 20:07:26 -0400, Amy & Joseph Kormann
<ajkormann@monmouth.com> wrote:

>One place I fence wants to mark off some strips for a competition. The
>only thing is they are not allowed to put down any type of tape - really
>bad job of polyurithane. One suggestion was to use a chalk-plumb to mark
>the area off. Then use a damp cloth to wipe up the chalk when done.

If the tape idea just won't work, how about either colored string or
some kind of yarn? I've seen rolls of neon orange or pink string (for
laying out boundaries before starting to build a building) at Target
or Home Depot. You can find all kinds of yarn colors fairly cheaply at
Hobby Lobby, Hancock Fabrics or similar places.

To keep the string in place, how about a gallon milk jug filled with
either water or sand at each corner. Or if you've got an old-fashioned
hardware or plumbing store (i.e. *not* Home Depot) in your area, you
may be able to find lead ingots to use for corner weights.

-Chris Zakes
Texas

Dragons don't have friends. The nearest they can get
to the idea is an enemy who is still alive.

-Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"

[David Neevel]

At a local high school they use white tempera (water soluble) paint applied
with a small (3") paint roller.
It just mops up with water when the tournament is over.

-Dave

Amy & Joseph Kormann wrote:

> One place I fence wants to mark off some strips for a competition. The
> only thing is they are not allowed to put down any type of tape - really
> bad job of polyurithane. One suggestion was to use a chalk-plumb to mark
> the area off. Then use a damp cloth to wipe up the chalk when done.
>
> Are there any others?
>
> -Joseph
>
> --
> Amy and Joseph Kormann

[Amy & Joseph Kormann]

One place I fence wants to mark off some strips for a competition. The
only thing is they are not allowed to put down any type of tape - really
bad job of polyurithane. One suggestion was to use a chalk-plumb to mark
the area off. Then use a damp cloth to wipe up the chalk when done.

Are there any others?

-Joseph

--
Amy and Joseph Kormann

[Fencer91162]

>
>One place I fence wants to mark off some strips for a competition. The
>only thing is they are not allowed to put down any type of tape - really
>bad job of polyurithane. One suggestion was to use a chalk-plumb to mark
>the area off. Then use a damp cloth to wipe up the chalk when done.
>
>Are there any others?
>
>-Joseph
>
>--
>Amy and Joseph Kormann
>
Not even the tape that painters tape? It's less tacky than traditional masking
tape... I think a chalk line would be long gone before the competition was
done...

Debbie B.

[Wolf]

> >One place I fence wants to mark off some strips for a competition. The
> >only thing is they are not allowed to put down any type of tape - really
> >bad job of polyurithane. One suggestion was to use a chalk-plumb to mark
> >the area off. Then use a damp cloth to wipe up the chalk when done.
> >
> >Are there any others?

> Not even the tape that painters tape? It's less tacky than traditional
masking
> tape... I think a chalk line would be long gone before the competition
was
> done...
>
> Debbie B.

Heck, even painter's tape is mostly gone by the end of a competition.
-Bill

[Fencerbill]

In article <3E9DF03E.8060509@monmouth.com>, Amy & Joseph Kormann
<ajkormann@monmouth.com> writes:

>One place I fence wants to mark off some strips for a competition. The
>only thing is they are not allowed to put down any type of tape - really
>bad job of polyurithane. One suggestion was to use a chalk-plumb to mark
>the area off. Then use a damp cloth to wipe up the chalk when done.
>
>Are there any others?

There are some tapes that are extremely floor friendly.

One is called Gaffers Tape and we buy ours at theatrical supply houses. We have
been allowed to use it on a brand new varnished floor and on a brand new gym
floor. It comes in two inch and wider sizes.

Another is called spike tape which usually comes in half inch widths. Look at
the same suppliers.

Ask them if you can put some pieces down in a corner to show them that it won't
adversely affect their floors.

If you do wind up with some residue, citrus cleaners (3M spray in particular)
do a great job of cleanup.

Bill Hall

[Ed Ploy]

Fencerbill wrote:

> Amy & Joseph Kormann <ajkormann@monmouth.com> writes:
>
>>One place I fence wants to mark off some strips for a competition. The
>>only thing is they are not allowed to put down any type of tape - really
>>bad job of polyurithane.


<snip>

> There are some tapes that are extremely floor friendly.
> One is called Gaffers Tape and we buy ours at theatrical supply houses.


<'nother snip>

> Another is called spike tape which usually comes in half inch widths. Look at
> the same suppliers.


<end snip>

Be careful if you use gaffer's tape (which is a 2" wide cloth tape), as
there are different varieties, some with very aggressive adhesive, some
quite light. The lighter adhesive is better, by the way, if you're going
to have your strips marked for more than a couple of days, as the
adhesive can be pulled off the backing of the heavier weight stuff.
Messy messy, requires citrus cleaners...

If you can, specify "dance floor tape" (or any tape that the vendor
recommends for use on dance floors. In theatres a dance floor is a
plastic floor that comes in 5 foot wide rolls x lengths the width of the
stage, and the long seams are taped together. An intrepid (and wealthy)
soul might use such to make pre-rolled strips.....). These tapes have a
lighter weight adhesive that will be less likely to yank the urethane
off the floor (I've seen this happen, and sympathize with the
maintenance crew that has asked for no tape)!

There are actually two kinds of dance floor tape, now that I'm getting
wordy <grin>, the other being a 2" wide vinyl tape similar to electrical
tape that is used a lot on these floors, and which might be really good
to experiment with, as I'd be very surprised if it pulled any finish up,
and should be very tough. It might prove to be tougher than the cloth,
and easier to pick up at the end of the day. If anyone has a preference
for vinyl over cloth tape on their electric foils, s/he may prefer the
vinyl floor tape, and vice versa...

Both of these are pricey if you buy them in single rolls. I'd expect to
pay between US$8 and US$15 (!!!) per roll (depending on the vendor's
discounts), but the rolls are ummmmmmmm..... 100ft.? 200ft.? Should get
3 to 5 strips from a roll.

I've never bought from the manufacturer, but a common mfr of these tapes
is Permacel. Might be worth checking, price and bulk-wise. And if you
don't have a theatrical supply house in your town, all the big ones will
ship with credit card (look in google), or you can check out a
professional photo supply place, although you might pay more. The
production guys at the public access cable station or the community
theatre might be of help.

If you get the 1/2" spike tape, be _sure_ to get the cloth stuff, and
not the duct tape type stuff.... you'll be much happier at cleanup.

All the above tapes are available in various colors, by the way.

As Mr. Hall recommended, test before using. Leave some down over a day
or two, and pull some up right away, to test for adhesive peeling.
Adhesive shouldn't dry out with any of these tapes (not true for duct
tape or masking tape)! And $.02 from a guy who's been down this road, if
the urethane isn't adhering to the floor, the painting contractor should
be asked (read: hauled) back in to make a fix. Unless it was painted in
house... :^(

Thanks for reading... :^)

-Ed Ploy

P.S. and OT: Has anyone experimented with any of those new gummy
pull-and-release adhesives that are made for hainging pictures, etc.
temporarily for use in holding down floor reels? I may try, but wondered
if the wheel had been invented.

[Thom Cate]

David Neevel <neevel@execpc.com> wrote in message news:<3EA0879E.36CC8BC5@execpc.com>...
> At a local high school they use white tempera (water soluble) paint applied
> with a small (3") paint roller.
> It just mops up with water when the tournament is over.

Go on, pull the other one. Seriously?

I want full references, names and email addresses--if this works, why
aren't more people doing it? I would love to see if this actually
works, without killing floors or fencers.

3" seems a bit wide, but Ok, whatever.

Cheers,

TC

--

[Fencerbill]

In article <4c1bba3.0304231409.5291f0ae@posting.google.com> , tcate@zoo.uvm.edu
(Thom Cate) writes:

>> At a local high school they use white tempera (water soluble) paint applied
>> with a small (3") paint roller.
>> It just mops up with water when the tournament is over.
>
>Go on, pull the other one. Seriously?
>
>I want full references, names and email addresses--if this works, why
>aren't more people doing it? I would love to see if this actually
>works, without killing floors or fencers.
>
>3" seems a bit wide, but Ok, whatever.
>
>Cheers,
>
>TC
>

Just this week, at Home Depot, i bought both one inch and two inch rollers.

Bill Hall

[Peter Harrison]

I presume you have to apply it far enough ahead of time for it to dry
completely. In a humid and/or cool environment, that could take a couple of
days I suspect. Isn't tempera pretty thick?


"Thom Cate" <tcate@zoo.uvm.edu> wrote in message
news:4c1bba3.0304231409.5291f0ae@posting.google.co m...
> David Neevel <neevel@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:<3EA0879E.36CC8BC5@execpc.com>...
> > At a local high school they use white tempera (water soluble) paint
applied
> > with a small (3") paint roller.
> > It just mops up with water when the tournament is over.
>
> Go on, pull the other one. Seriously?
>
> I want full references, names and email addresses--if this works, why
> aren't more people doing it? I would love to see if this actually
> works, without killing floors or fencers.
>
> 3" seems a bit wide, but Ok, whatever.
>
> Cheers,
>
> TC
>
> --

[Chris Hagen]

In article <20030417152539.18769.00000017@mb-m13.aol.com>, fencerbill@aol.com
(Fencerbill) writes:

>In article <3E9DF03E.8060509@monmouth.com>, Amy & Joseph Kormann
><ajkormann@monmouth.com> writes:
>
>>One place I fence wants to mark off some strips for a competition. The
>>only thing is they are not allowed to put down any type of tape - really
>>bad job of polyurithane. One suggestion was to use a chalk-plumb to mark
>>the area off. Then use a damp cloth to wipe up the chalk when done.
>>
>>Are there any others?
>
>There are some tapes that are extremely floor friendly.
>
>One is called Gaffers Tape and we buy ours at theatrical supply houses. We
>have
>been allowed to use it on a brand new varnished floor and on a brand new gym
>floor. It comes in two inch and wider sizes.

Come on, Bill!
That doesn't mean anything!
Other that that fact that tape CAN leave residue (especially duct tape - cheap,
or otherwise), so you have to deal with cleaning/wiping that up: even VERY
sticky tape is not going to pull up the finish on a brand new floor (unless,
maybe, they poured it on right over the dust!) It's the older floors with
geologic layers of shellac, varnish, and urethane on them that yield!

Bill& Amy -If you are so restricted, (as Dave said) see how they feel about
tempra (sp?) paint;
(it's not my favorite solution, but) We used to use that in a couple of
venues: you get one of those 1 inch wide sponge trim rollers (they usually have
a corner shape to them) and a broom handle to screw it onto: mix a little paint
in a pie tin, or cool-whip container, and roll away!

Yes, It WILL scuff off a little, so you won't have the most solid, sharp line
(which yoiu din't have to start with!), but the line will be an inch wide, so
it won't disappear after a few bouts! Just tell the fencers and referees
that, since the line is fuzzy to begin with, they should stay away from it, and
the referees won't have to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.

Just make sure you have access to water (which SHOULD be a given at any
fencing event/practice), and that someone remembers to bring a mop to clean up!

[Chris Hagen]

In article <20030416203538.19058.00000024@mb-m26.aol.com>, fencer91162@aol.com
(Fencer91162) writes:

>Not even the tape that painters tape? It's less tacky than traditional
>masking
>tape... I think a chalk line would be long gone before the competition was
>done...
>
>Debbie B.

Yes, even THAT can overwhelm the adhesion of finish applied onto a poorly
prepared surface.
We had that problem at an event that we had recently: Both the blue masking
tape (not that regular masking tape IS painter's tape also!), as well as some
other low-tack vinyl tape: we have had events there numerous times other the
years, but appraently, they recently had some sort of damage/repair to the
floor, as there was a good sized section (several square yards) that showed it
had been sanded to bare wood, ad finish applied.. It apparently seemd like a
good idea to give the whole floor a coat! Not the best money they had ever
spent!

[David Neevel]

Nope, it dries very quickly-- about 1/2 hour to dry is plenty of time.

-Dave

Peter Harrison wrote:

> I presume you have to apply it far enough ahead of time for it to dry
> completely. In a humid and/or cool environment, that could take a couple of
> days I suspect. Isn't tempera pretty thick?
>
> "Thom Cate" <tcate@zoo.uvm.edu> wrote in message
> news:4c1bba3.0304231409.5291f0ae@posting.google.co m...
> > David Neevel <neevel@execpc.com> wrote in message
> news:<3EA0879E.36CC8BC5@execpc.com>...
> > > At a local high school they use white tempera (water soluble) paint
> applied
> > > with a small (3") paint roller.
> > > It just mops up with water when the tournament is over.
> >
> > Go on, pull the other one. Seriously?
> >
> > I want full references, names and email addresses--if this works, why
> > aren't more people doing it? I would love to see if this actually
> > works, without killing floors or fencers.
> >
> > 3" seems a bit wide, but Ok, whatever.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > TC
> >
> > --