Elite != Fascism

[a517dogg]

Jupiter... I have to wonder... what the hell are you on???

Elitism to facism?!?!??

Facism, at least in Germany, was socialst.... implying that there was equality, all Germans/Aryans were equal (with Hitler foremost among equals of course)... similar in Italy. Elitism says that some people are better than others in certain things. They are pretty much polar opposites.

Jeeeeeeeesus christ.

[civiltech]

[quote]Originally posted by Jupiter
[b]Well, I can see that many people feel differently about the word Elite. I never suggested taking it out of the dictionary, but I felt and still do, that we shouldn't have such a category in the usfa.


What would you propose to call the best in their respective sport?

I propose:

"Really good, but not dominearing to a point where it may be, or implied to be offensive, or intimidating to another person, though their fencing capability requires distinction."


Like it?

[pkt]

Jupiter,

I think you're comitting a very common abuse of any language: trying to create a new meaning to a word simply because you do not know the original meaning or usage of the word.

Example. Quantum. Quantum as used originally in math or astrophysics, means a minute step... But as used by laypeople, it implies a HUGE gain.

Go figure who first adopted that new diametrically opposite meaning. I'll bet you it was a businessman. Everytime I hear the word 'impact' used as a verb I cringe. What about 'affect'? I guess it does not have the same forceful, impactful sound as 'impact'.

In Chinese, there are 8 ways to create new words, and 'borrowing' was one of them.

PK

[jeff]

For the classic paper on misuse of language, see George Orwell's "Politics and the English Language", 1946. It's available on lots of web sites; here's one: http://eserver.org/langs/politics-english-language.txt

A good thing to read before flinging cliches and loaded words like "fascist".

[pkt]

Thank you, Jeff for a most useful site/article.

The more things change the mor they remain the same, eh?

PK

[Jupiter]

The nazi's also took the Hindu peace symbol, turned it around and called it a swaztika, they completely twisted original meaning. We can see who on the board has a completely closed mind and who has an open mind. I don't understand the relevance to Out front Hooters and fencing, but we'll let that pass, for now. We'll get ya later [big wink]...

There are other terms that could be applied to a group of Athletes that are competing at the olympic level or whatever level to represent America. So, if the idea is to grab the attention of the Press as edew has impliled, let's think: "These are America's Division A-1 Fencers" I don't see a problem with that.

p.s. Craig, we should have a dog house on the board.

[edew]

Maybe you just don't know how to read. I already explained by "Division A-1" fencers is a meaningless term for those who aren't in the sport.

A-1 does not evoke eliteness or top-flight. We are already overusing the term "division". Maybe we should use "category" instead. In any case ordinal classification is usually misinterpreted as cardinal classification by the reader. That is, first, second, third is read as one, two, three.

First may well evoke the feeling of being, well, first. But "one" doesn't evoke any particular sense of anything. As I wrote, "one" is good if it implies first. But bad if it's a measurement of beauty by guys.

Open your mind.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Originally posted by civiltech
I propose:

"Really good, but not dominearing to a point where it may be, or implied to be offensive, or intimidating to another person, though their fencing capability requires distinction."

Civil: that's perfect! So when we finally get a national championship on TV, just imagine:

FADE UP FROM BLACK: XWS Greenville Convention Center Blimp overhead shot...slow push in

CUE ANNOUNCER 1: (vo) "Live from the Greenville Convention Center in Downtown Greenville, South Carolina, right next to the fabulous Krispy Kreme donut shop, it's the RGBNDTAPWIMBOITBOOITAPTTFCRD National Fencing Championships!"

TAKE CAM 1: (2-shot announce table) (cue Anncr 1)
"Hi everybody, I'm Brent Hyperbole, along with four-time Olympian Eric Dew. My goodness, Eric, what a big name for a big-time event!

TAKE CAM 2: (single on color anncr) "It IS a big name, Brent. I can remember back when it used to be the Division 1 Elite National Championships, but some members of the fencing world thought it was just too reminiscent of....sounded like...uh..."

TAKE CAM 1: (2-shot over color shoulder to Anncr 1)"...the kind of event that only rich people with lots time on their hands could take part in?" (Color Anncr) "That's it in a nutshell, Brent" (CAM 1 PUSHES TO SINGLE OF ANNCR 1) (laughs in a hearty fashion) "Well, Eric, you certainly can't get this event's name on a nutshell..."

DISSOLVE CAM 3 (slow pan across ceiling)
"Look at the size of those banners hanging overhead here in the Greenville Convention Center. We're told each one is more than 70 feet long, and cost over $15,000 just to squeeze the event name onto each banner."

DISSOLVE CAM 1: (2-shot Announce table) (cue color anncr) "Yep, just try to get THAT on a T-shirt!" (more hearty laughter) (slow zoom to Anncr 1) But seriously, folks, we're about to see the first direct elimination bout of one of America's best, but not prohibitively best, dominating fencers."

TAKE CAM 3: (ISO on Fencer 1, stage right) (cue color anncr) "Dominating, but not offensive or intimidating...the tournament name speaks for itself!"



or, something like that

[civiltech]

I love it!!

You should be writing screenplays, or at the very least directing them!!!!!!!

[retardedspleen]

Jupiter, I think what you need to do, is print out what Edew said, and read it outloud to yourself untill you understand it, he explained it perfectly, I dont know that it coulda been said better!

when somebody asks you where your going, and you reply im going to go fence in utah, at the division A-1's! what are they supposed to derive from that? its like telling somebody who knows nothing about karate that your a yellow belt, is that good? bad? everybody knows about black belts, it sounds mean, its black. with fencing, its not as well known, its not talked about as often as karate, so divison A-1 dosnt mean anything, calling it elite nationals...now that sounds like something good...its elite, its good!


Chris T

[Jupiter]

Originally posted by edew
Maybe you just don't know how to read. I already explained by "Division A-1" fencers is a meaningless term for those who aren't in the sport.

A-1 does not evoke eliteness or top-flight. We are already overusing the term "division". Maybe we should use "category" instead. In any case ordinal classification is usually misinterpreted as cardinal classification by the reader. That is, first, second, third is read as one, two, three.

First may well evoke the feeling of being, well, first. But "one" doesn't evoke any particular sense of anything. As I wrote, "one" is good if it implies first. But bad if it's a measurement of beauty by guys.

Open your mind.

I don't understand the reaction, it's such an over-reaction

A-1 doesnt' sound great enough. It depends on how you say it.
It's like grading eggs: you got Grade A, Grade AA, Grade AAA, Grade B, Grade C. Grade AAA Extra Large, Grade AAA Large, Grade B and so forth. And don't tell me I can't read, you can't read, do you know that thousands of people and billions of dollars were spent saving your *** while you fenced? Men and women were getting their ****ing legs shot off and all you want is to be called "elite" you must be completely insane.

[pkt]

Jupiter
"The nazi's also took the Hindu peace symbol, turned it around and called it a swaztika, they completely twisted original meaning."


Jupiter,

Just to prove that yet again, you're wrong.


Again from Merriam-Webster:
swastika.
Main Entry: swas·ti·ka
Pronunciation: 'swäs-ti-k& also swä-'stE-
Function: noun
Etymology: Skt svastika, from svasti well-being, from su- well + as- to be; akin to Sanskrit asti he is, Old English is; from its being regarded as a good luck symbol
Date: 1871
1 : a symbol or ornament in the form of a Greek cross with the ends of the arms extended at right angles all in the same rotary direction
2 : a swastika used as a symbol of anti-Semitism or of Nazism

In German:
swastika.
Hakenkreuz {n} Hakenkreuze {pl}
[or hooked cross(es) - PK]

So, the original name IS swastika.
The Nazis called them Hakenkreuz.

I know, I know, I'm having fun at your expense.

PK

[Jupiter]

pkt, your dictionary definitions are wonderful; however, an old English, interpretation of an ancient Hindu symbol is just another example of colonialism. Sorry.

Having written one sentence and having it turn into a major battle is ridiculose and I don't want to write about this anymore, you're all welcome to call yourselves elite. I would have reserved the term for highly refined people. Maybe they are refined, maybe no-one on this board is an elite fencer. But as an elite person....I have never seen such a disgraceful amount of butt kissing in my life. Eric directs bouts, but, I noticed he and his team-mates do a pretty good job at directing, except for one fellow.

Every time we get close to nationals it's "print out the dew's WORDS" and repeat them, please - get a spine. You know, I do my prayers, twice a day, but it's not to anyone here. My Muslim friends all repected my religion, because we pray twice a day.

Sorry guys, when I saw eric last, I have no idea what happened, but he was starting to talk and my brain completly spaced out, he must have thought I was ignoring him, which is why he's been ranting at me for the past two years, talk about a grudge!

I dont' think I'll be writing until after nationals because I don't want to flame anyone.

[pkt]

Originally posted by Jupiter
pkt, your dictionary definitions are wonderful; however, an old English, interpretation of an ancient Hindu symbol is just another example of colonialism. Sorry.

What r you talking about?
'old English interpretation of an ancient Hindu symbol..." I guess you misread the M-W definition:
that was an example, '...as in Old English IS.'

I'spose it's par for the course for you... . Misreading things and causing yourself a lot of grief... You don't have a reading handicap, do you? When was the last time you had your eyes checked out?

Originally posted by Jupiter
Having written one sentence and having it turn into a major battle is ridiculose and I don't want to write about this anymore, you're all welcome to call yourselves elite. I would have reserved the term for highly refined people. Maybe they are refined, maybe no-one on this board is an elite fencer. But as an elite person....I have never seen such a disgraceful amount of butt kissing in my life. ...

My, my, those are fighting words.

Hey, Eric, have I ever kissed your butt?
I don't even know where your butt is!!!

Jupiter,

Aren't you taking this far too personally?

One thing I've learned from living in N. America - since 1968 - is that when one is engaged in debates, discussions, do NOT make it personal.

Do NOT TAKE it personal.

Participants are just throwing out arguments to make a point, to defeat the other's argument. I think most of us who are on the attack most of the time never meant the attacks to be personal - thank goodness, I've not seen any, aside from my own being named in TWO threads. But hey, I'm an adult, I don't mind being called names which none has thus far.

If you can't take the points and counter-points perhaps it IS best to withdraw, retreat from the verbal combat. I surely will miss having you about...

Originally posted by Jupiter
... You know, I do my prayers, twice a day, but it's not to anyone here. My Muslim friends all repected my religion, because we pray twice a day.

What religion are you? [You don't have to answer that if you
don't wish to. But of course.]

Originally posted by Jupiter
... Sorry guys, when I saw eric last, I have no idea what happened, but he was starting to talk and my brain completly spaced out, he must have thought I was ignoring him, which is why he's been ranting at me for the past two years, talk about a grudge!

... But Eric rants at anything and anyone...



QUOTE]Originally posted by Jupiter
... I dont' think I'll be writing until after nationals because I don't want to flame anyone. [/quote]

Hardly...

Auf wiedersehen, my friend.

PK

Ps: 3 more posts and I'd hit 500 posts!
I'm having too much fun.
Thank you, Craig.

[Jupiter]

send eric a valentines card, and craig a box of candy, pkt your posts are sad, sad sad. you don't know sanskrit.

[pkt]

Originally posted by Jupiter
send eric a valentines card, and craig a box of candy, pkt your posts are sad, sad sad. you don't know sanskrit.

I have Eric's address but not Craig's. Do you? Craig didn't seem to want to give me his address? I SO wanted one of those T shirts. I'm fencing in dregs. [OK, it is 'drEgs' not drAgs.]

Sanskrit?
It's all Greek to me.
I can say 'Sasrikal.' but that's Punjabi...

Originally posted by Jupiter
I dont' think I'll be writing until after nationals because I don't want to flame anyone.

Is the US Nationals over already?

See, I knew you can't stay away... .

At least we now know, Jup, that you do possess TWO characteristic needed to be a fencer:
competitiveness and doggedness.

Welcome back.

PK

[Jupiter]

Okay, Pkt, relax a bit. I wish I could understand why you react to each and every sentence on the board. It's completely pathological. Don't think about having to translate every language under the sun just to fence, it's hardly worth it. BTW; being snide about "Sad", which means "6" in Sanskrit but also, 6 was a symbol of Peace. It later got twisted up by some people from Europe to mean evil and then it got worse. I find PKT to be very interesting, however...exhausting!!! Don't stop posting, you bring a lot of energy to the board, my only worry is that you'll burn out?