The DMFB-100 Scoring Box for Fencing ???

[R. Exnicios]

Greetings:

I was wondering if anyone was familiar with this machine. We currently have the SG 12s and are looking at purchasing another machine and I wanted to know what else was out there. I've seen all the other machines that are around but not this one. If anyone has any experience with this machine I would appreciate any comments.

Thanks

Richard Exnicios
Coach, Tulane University

[sallearmourer]

I have never heard of this machine must least seen one,

Now since you have a SG12 machine look at the SG 11 machine
BG carrys for around 356.00 gteat lights and the same quailty.

BY the way who makes the machine.

Tim Loomis

[DHCJr]

The DMFB-100 machines are more commonly called BlueSky machines. You can see pictures of them and specifications at http://www.blueskylabs.com/fencing.html. The St. George machines could be called the international standard. I have worked with both the St. George and the Blue Sky machines and I prefer them for three reasons, the lights you see on the box are the same ones you see on the side of the 18-wheelers, big, bright and tough. The second reason is rules change and the Blue Sky will be upgraded for free. Our division has 6 St. George and at $50 a pop, the minor changes that have occured does not warant spending $300 plus shipping cost to upgrade them. The last reason is the manufacturer will be giving out the schematics to a number of the top Armorers around the country, which will give you more places to get repair if you should need it, but the box is very durable metal box.

If you are getting just one machine the SG-11 is $43 cheaper from Blue Gauntlet, and is describe as a club box. The SG-12 is almost $300 more. I have not worked with the SG-11 and it is new and there is no picture available, but it does worry me in what they cut out from the SG-12 to get it down that cheap.

[sallearmourer]

They didn't cut anything out of the SG11 machine they took of advantage of using just two lights instead of 4. The lights are very bright and very large leds the box is smaller but is a all metal case. I love the SG 11 I got run really well at our divisional qualifers. I have been around this business long enough to seen several American Machine come and go with in a 5 to 6 year period. I have nothing against them but like I say I seen several models come and go and clubs stuck with out support for there machines.

The machine looks okay but what is the track recond of the machine. Outside of Southern Cailf. They need to get the machine to a NAC at a booth where they can be seen. Anybody can see the Farvo or the SG 11 machines at NACs, Oh the SG 11 does meet all of the FIE Specs

Tim

[DHCJr]

They are also used in Nevada that I know of, but Daryll told me a couple of months ago he has been getting inquiries, so maybe they are elsewhere. They do not have an advertising buget. But support will not be a problem. As I said they are giving out the schematics and they are using industry standard parts. Repairing them will be a lot easier than the St. George. I believe only Ted is authorized to repair the St. George. If there are others, I for one would like to know. Ted is a great Armorer, but he is just one person.

As I said before, the St. George machines are the international standards and I like them and I have recommended them. Maybe I asked the wrong question. Why would anyone buy an SG-12 for almost $300 more than a SG-11 if the only difference was 2 extra light bulbs?

[darius]

There are a few more differences to the SG-11; one quick thing I noticed is that the sound won't shut off like the Eigerteks. And it's LOUD! But that's generally a plus.

Also, the AC adapters could be improved; it looks like a universal adapter, but BG has just stuck on an adapter to change the round Euro prongs into US prongs. It's a bit unwieldly, and won't stay in a socket as well as it could -- an errant cord bumping the adapter frustrated some foilists for a few seconds until they looked to see if the box was on.

Note that if you want the SG-11 with a battery, you're paying an extra hundred bucks.

Also, one of our SG-11s was dead-on-arrival; I'm sending it back this week.

darius

[sallearmourer]

I got the one with the battery because during the summer we fence in the park. We used it at the divisional on the battery for 8 hrs it allow us to have a extra strip. Plug it in at the end of the day and it was ready to go again the next day. like I have said all manufacter has problems and things slip though but with BG you know you get it exchange with no problems.


Tim

[oiuyt]

I agree with Donald, 2 lightbulbs just don't cut $300 in costs. Perhaps there're manufacturing savings that have resulted in reduced costs. Raises the question of why introduce a new model and leave the 12 at the higher price (unless it's a marketing strategy -- people like to buy something above the bottom level, by adding a reduced level people will feel that they are getting additional value from the 12). Perhaps it's to help protect the higher price points for the 21 and 31. And perhaps there's something that the 11 lacks that isn't obvious.

Tim- why would anyone buy the 12 instead of the 11? If the price were only $10 different which would you pick and why?

-B :)

[neevel]

Bear in mind that we're working (at least for a few more years) in the world of Moore's Law. The reason why the SG-11 can do what the SG-12 did for half the cost is the same reason why the SG-12, when it first came out, could do what comparable Uhlmann & Allstar boxes for half the cost. Newer components and manufacturing technologies allow you to do more at a given price-point than you could previously. It's not much different from a $600 PC now equaling the performance of a $3000 PC from two years ago.

I suspect that the current SG-12 will be phased out in the next year or so (the ones still listed in vendors catalogs may already be just the existing stock being sold off). The SG-11 is not just a 'de-contented' variant of the old SG-12-- it's one of an entire range of new models from Fencing Technologies. If you look at the price points for the new SG models, the SG-11 fits in at a new, low-rung price point, where they didn't have a model to compete in. The new SG-12 ST is the SG-11, plus an integrated score and clock display and remote, that is at basically the same price point as the old SG-12 was when new ($800 or so). Then there's the new SG-21 (at about $1400), and the new SG-31 at the top (about $3500).

To keep things in perspective, ten years ago if you wanted a 3-W box you were looking at spending $1000-1500. Now I can name 4 very good models (SG-11, Blue Sky, Eigertek, Favero 01) that offer equal or superior functionality to that 1993 Allstar box, but cost less than $400 in the US. As for which of the 4 is best for a particular club/individual, it's probably one of those BMW vs. Audi, 9mm vs. .45 type questions that'll never be definitively answered.

-Dave

[sallearmourer]

The cost difference between the SG11 and 12 is what David said change in techology that allow the SG 11 to be made cheaper.
Now if Blue Sky was smart it would send one of there machine to Ted Li and have him run it though a FIE Test Box


Tim

[DHCJr]

I think a member of the SEMI commission of the FIE would be a better choice to do the testing and as I said that was done. The first time it did not passed and recomendations were made for the changes made. The second time it did pass.

Also, I did not want to say anything negative about the SG-11, because from what I seen of St. George products, they have done well. Tim, you made reference about other American built machines that have failed, but you did not give specifics. I could say things about 'Club' boxes from major manufaturers. Once it was insisted at a NAC over the Armorer's objections to use a Uhlmann club machine for the sabre finals round of 8. When they got to the Gold medal bout, Peter Westbrook was down 3-0, until Steve Mormondo step onto the strip and wouldn't move until the Armorers were allowed to replace the box. At a Div I national 'Club' machines were used. A suit was filed and they had to fly all the people back in and run the competition over.

This like your statement proves nothing. Uhlmann is not St. George and the other unnamed machines are not Blue Sky. Blue Sky has done three things to ensure the boxes will be supported. First they got a member of the SEMI commission to test the box, that is met all requirements. They are using off-the-shelf parts that they do not hide. They are willing to give out the schematics. I have been told they will be giving these out to certified Armorers (most likely 2's and above) and any well recognized Armorers like Dan, Joe, Ted, Carl, Matthew and Rudi.

I would also like to say, I do not own a Blue Sky machine, not because I do not believe in them, but because I do not have $400. I do not get anything out of this. I don't get a special discount. I have never worked for them. I am unbiased. I have seen and worked with equipment from AllStar to Zivkovic and everything in between. At this time, I believe this is the best machine for the price out there, both in up front cost and down the line.

[R. Exnicios]

Hey guys I wasn't trying to start a war. All the input is greatly appreciated.

The strange thing is now my decision is between two boxes I have never seen.

Thanks


Richard Exnicios
Tulane Univ.

[JEC]

Originally posted by R. Exnicios
The strange thing is now my decision is between two boxes I have never seen.

I thought that you would be very used to that being an attorney.

[sallearmourer]

I email them a month ago that if they send me a machine that I would display it in my booth for free where it could be seen on a National level talking about free advertisment. Since I go to ever NAC. Pepole like to see things before buying never a replied to my email. you see just about ever other machine there.

Tim

[DHCJr]

The problem is they don't have a buget to send out a free machine to anyone. As I've said before this is on a shoestring buget. Advertising is word of mouth and the ones that have bought it have been very pleased. If I had a spare $400, I would buy one. I now have reels and floor cords, but no machine.

[oiuyt]

Makes the rest less useful.... :)

-B :)

[DHCJr]

I carry them, sometimes as spares. It's not like I actually fence. You probably wouldn't be surprised that there are some organizers who have just enough machines for the strips their planning and maybe an extra reel and floor cord or two. What can I say, I'm an armorer, so I'm lazy. If something breaks, I don't want to be rushing to fix it, so I bring my own spares. I have been at this game to long.

[Windsor]

Am I the only one that the Bluesky link doesn't work for?

[DHCJr]

It didn't work for me also. Try going in from the main site Blueskylabs.com. Hit on PRODUCTS and then Sports Scoring Equipment. I'm not sure why going directly doesn't work.

[sallearmourer]

I am like Donald I showed with 3 machines and 3 set of reels and 4 set of floor cords at tournments just for spares. I carry a SG 12 machine at Nac and used it as a test box sometime.

Tim