Re: In bounds?

[Julie C.]

> I have a question about what is in bounds and what is out of bounds.
> A person was fencing, stepped with heel out of bounds before the attack,
> Should the point be allowed?- If they break the plane of the strip before
> the attack, point or no point?
> thanks
>
>

FENCING RULES

2002 Edition

United States Fencing Association, Inc.


9. Crossing the limits of the strip

(a) Stopping the bout

t.26 When a competitor crosses one of the lateral boundaries of the strip
with one or both feet, the referee must immediately call `Halt.

If the fencer goes off the strip with both feet, the referee must annul
everything that has occurred after the boundary has been crossed, except a
touch received by the competitor who has crossed the b oundary even after hi
or she has crossed it, provided that this touch results from a simple and
immediate action. However, a touch scored by the fencer woh leaves the
strip with one foot oly is valid provided that the action was started before
the `Halt.`

If one of the competitors leaves the strip with both feet, only a touch made
by the fencer who remains on the strip with at least one foot can be counted
valid, even in the case of a double touch.

(b) Rear limits

t.27 Should a competitor cross the rear limit of the strip completely -
i.e. with both feet - a touch will be scored against him.

(c) Lateral boundaries

t.28 A competitor who crosses one of the lateral boundaries of the strip
with one or both feet is penalized. When the competitors are replaced on
guard, the opponent of the competitor who has crossed the lateral boundary
will step forward one meter from the position he or she occupied when the
opponent left the strip; the competitor who is penalized must retire in
order to resume the correct fencing distance.

If the exercise of this penalty places a competitor with both feet beyond
the rear limit of the strip, that competitor is considered as having been
touch.

A competitor who crosses one of the boundaries of the strip with one or both
feet - e.g. when making a flèche - to avoid being touched will be penalized
as specified in Articles t.114, t.116, t.120.

(d) Leaving the strip accidentally

t.29 A competitor who unitentionally crosses one of the boundaries of the
strip as the result of an accidental cause (such as jostling) incurs no
penalty whatever.

[Julie C.]

> I have a question about what is in bounds and what is out of bounds.
> A person was fencing, stepped with heel out of bounds before the attack,
> Should the point be allowed?- If they break the plane of the strip before
> the attack, point or no point?
> thanks
>
>

FENCING RULES

2002 Edition

United States Fencing Association, Inc.


9. Crossing the limits of the strip

(a) Stopping the bout

t.26 When a competitor crosses one of the lateral boundaries of the strip
with one or both feet, the referee must immediately call `Halt.

If the fencer goes off the strip with both feet, the referee must annul
everything that has occurred after the boundary has been crossed, except a
touch received by the competitor who has crossed the b oundary even after hi
or she has crossed it, provided that this touch results from a simple and
immediate action. However, a touch scored by the fencer woh leaves the
strip with one foot oly is valid provided that the action was started before
the `Halt.`

If one of the competitors leaves the strip with both feet, only a touch made
by the fencer who remains on the strip with at least one foot can be counted
valid, even in the case of a double touch.

(b) Rear limits

t.27 Should a competitor cross the rear limit of the strip completely -
i.e. with both feet - a touch will be scored against him.

(c) Lateral boundaries

t.28 A competitor who crosses one of the lateral boundaries of the strip
with one or both feet is penalized. When the competitors are replaced on
guard, the opponent of the competitor who has crossed the lateral boundary
will step forward one meter from the position he or she occupied when the
opponent left the strip; the competitor who is penalized must retire in
order to resume the correct fencing distance.

If the exercise of this penalty places a competitor with both feet beyond
the rear limit of the strip, that competitor is considered as having been
touch.

A competitor who crosses one of the boundaries of the strip with one or both
feet - e.g. when making a flèche - to avoid being touched will be penalized
as specified in Articles t.114, t.116, t.120.

(d) Leaving the strip accidentally

t.29 A competitor who unitentionally crosses one of the boundaries of the
strip as the result of an accidental cause (such as jostling) incurs no
penalty whatever.

[Harold Buck]

In article <9q3ma.4218$945.12278@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>,
"Julie C." <no-spanner@127.0.0.0> wrote:

> > I have a question about what is in bounds and what is out of bounds.
> > A person was fencing, stepped with heel out of bounds before the attack,
> > Should the point be allowed?- If they break the plane of the strip before
> > the attack, point or no point?
> > thanks
> >
> >
>
> FENCING RULES
>
> 2002 Edition
>
> United States Fencing Association, Inc.
>
>
> 9. Crossing the limits of the strip
>
> (a) Stopping the bout
>
> t.26 When a competitor crosses one of the lateral boundaries of the strip
> with one or both feet, the referee must immediately call `Halt.


I would assume "crosses" refers to the entire foot being outside the
strip, so if a heel touches the ground outside of the lateral boundaries
but the rest of the foot was in it would be ignored.

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

[Harold Buck]

In article <9q3ma.4218$945.12278@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>,
"Julie C." <no-spanner@127.0.0.0> wrote:

> > I have a question about what is in bounds and what is out of bounds.
> > A person was fencing, stepped with heel out of bounds before the attack,
> > Should the point be allowed?- If they break the plane of the strip before
> > the attack, point or no point?
> > thanks
> >
> >
>
> FENCING RULES
>
> 2002 Edition
>
> United States Fencing Association, Inc.
>
>
> 9. Crossing the limits of the strip
>
> (a) Stopping the bout
>
> t.26 When a competitor crosses one of the lateral boundaries of the strip
> with one or both feet, the referee must immediately call `Halt.


I would assume "crosses" refers to the entire foot being outside the
strip, so if a heel touches the ground outside of the lateral boundaries
but the rest of the foot was in it would be ignored.

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

[Dirk Goldgar]

"Julie C." <no-spanner@127.0.0.0> wrote in message
news:9q3ma.4218$945.12278@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
>
> FENCING RULES
>
> 2002 Edition


Where did you get a copy of the 2002 edition of the rule book? I only
see the 1999 edition on the USFA web site. Is it possible I might
have to (gasp!) purchase a hard copy?

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

[Dirk Goldgar]

"Julie C." <no-spanner@127.0.0.0> wrote in message
news:9q3ma.4218$945.12278@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
>
> FENCING RULES
>
> 2002 Edition


Where did you get a copy of the 2002 edition of the rule book? I only
see the 1999 edition on the USFA web site. Is it possible I might
have to (gasp!) purchase a hard copy?

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

[Julie C.]

> Where did you get a copy of the 2002 edition of the rule book? I only
> see the 1999 edition on the USFA web site. Is it possible I might
> have to (gasp!) purchase a hard copy?

At http://foc.usfencing.org/FOC%20Download%20page.html

[Julie C.]

> Where did you get a copy of the 2002 edition of the rule book? I only
> see the 1999 edition on the USFA web site. Is it possible I might
> have to (gasp!) purchase a hard copy?

At http://foc.usfencing.org/FOC%20Download%20page.html

[Dirk Goldgar]

"Julie C." <no-spanner@127.0.0.0> wrote in message
news:1o5ma.4227$945.12296@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
>
> > Where did you get a copy of the 2002 edition of the rule book? I
only
> > see the 1999 edition on the USFA web site. Is it possible I might
> > have to (gasp!) purchase a hard copy?
>
> At http://foc.usfencing.org/FOC%20Download%20page.html

Thanks! Downloading even as I write.
--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

[Dirk Goldgar]

"Julie C." <no-spanner@127.0.0.0> wrote in message
news:1o5ma.4227$945.12296@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
>
> > Where did you get a copy of the 2002 edition of the rule book? I
only
> > see the 1999 edition on the USFA web site. Is it possible I might
> > have to (gasp!) purchase a hard copy?
>
> At http://foc.usfencing.org/FOC%20Download%20page.html

Thanks! Downloading even as I write.
--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

[Wolf]

> (b) Rear limits
>
> t.27 Should a competitor cross the rear limit of the strip completely -
> i.e. with both feet - a touch will be scored against him.

Wasn't there not a rule that at least one foot had to remain in bounds at
the rear line? Thus one foot past the line w/ the front foot in the air was
a violation as well?
-Bill

[Wolf]

> (b) Rear limits
>
> t.27 Should a competitor cross the rear limit of the strip completely -
> i.e. with both feet - a touch will be scored against him.

Wasn't there not a rule that at least one foot had to remain in bounds at
the rear line? Thus one foot past the line w/ the front foot in the air was
a violation as well?
-Bill

[Dirk Goldgar]

"Wolf" <wrbusson@mtu.edu> wrote in message
news:v9hv3vilgqqn1f@corp.supernews.com...
> > (b) Rear limits
> >
> > t.27 Should a competitor cross the rear limit of the strip
completely -
> > i.e. with both feet - a touch will be scored against him.
>
> Wasn't there not a rule that at least one foot had to remain in
bounds at
> the rear line? Thus one foot past the line w/ the front foot in the
air was
> a violation as well?

No. Having the front foot in the air but still above the strip counts
as being on the strip. Otherwise, you couldn't have the back foot off
and then make an advance to get back on, since that would involve
picking up your front foot.

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

[Dirk Goldgar]

"Wolf" <wrbusson@mtu.edu> wrote in message
news:v9hv3vilgqqn1f@corp.supernews.com...
> > (b) Rear limits
> >
> > t.27 Should a competitor cross the rear limit of the strip
completely -
> > i.e. with both feet - a touch will be scored against him.
>
> Wasn't there not a rule that at least one foot had to remain in
bounds at
> the rear line? Thus one foot past the line w/ the front foot in the
air was
> a violation as well?

No. Having the front foot in the air but still above the strip counts
as being on the strip. Otherwise, you couldn't have the back foot off
and then make an advance to get back on, since that would involve
picking up your front foot.

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

[Tim Schofield]

In article <no_one_knows-275B78.21142012042003@netnews.attbi.com>,
Harold Buck <no_one_knows@attbi.com> writes
>In article <9q3ma.4218$945.12278@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>,
> "Julie C." <no-spanner@127.0.0.0> wrote:
>
>> > I have a question about what is in bounds and what is out of bounds.
>> > A person was fencing, stepped with heel out of bounds before the attack,
>> > Should the point be allowed?- If they break the plane of the strip before
>> > the attack, point or no point?
>> > thanks
>> >
>> >
>>
>> FENCING RULES
>>
>> 2002 Edition
>>
>> United States Fencing Association, Inc.
>>
>>
>> 9. Crossing the limits of the strip
>>
>> (a) Stopping the bout
>>
>> t.26 When a competitor crosses one of the lateral boundaries of the strip
>> with one or both feet, the referee must immediately call `Halt.
>
>
>I would assume "crosses" refers to the entire foot being outside the
>strip, so if a heel touches the ground outside of the lateral boundaries
>but the rest of the foot was in it would be ignored.
>
>--Harold Buck
>

That seems to be the interpretation. Also, might the referee have
interpreted the hit as being with a final movement launched before the
halt? That would be valid.

--
Tim S.

[Tim Schofield]

In article <no_one_knows-275B78.21142012042003@netnews.attbi.com>,
Harold Buck <no_one_knows@attbi.com> writes
>In article <9q3ma.4218$945.12278@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>,
> "Julie C." <no-spanner@127.0.0.0> wrote:
>
>> > I have a question about what is in bounds and what is out of bounds.
>> > A person was fencing, stepped with heel out of bounds before the attack,
>> > Should the point be allowed?- If they break the plane of the strip before
>> > the attack, point or no point?
>> > thanks
>> >
>> >
>>
>> FENCING RULES
>>
>> 2002 Edition
>>
>> United States Fencing Association, Inc.
>>
>>
>> 9. Crossing the limits of the strip
>>
>> (a) Stopping the bout
>>
>> t.26 When a competitor crosses one of the lateral boundaries of the strip
>> with one or both feet, the referee must immediately call `Halt.
>
>
>I would assume "crosses" refers to the entire foot being outside the
>strip, so if a heel touches the ground outside of the lateral boundaries
>but the rest of the foot was in it would be ignored.
>
>--Harold Buck
>

That seems to be the interpretation. Also, might the referee have
interpreted the hit as being with a final movement launched before the
halt? That would be valid.

--
Tim S.

[C-Sports]

Ok- if the entire foot has to be out,

Then what is the ruling when there a raised strips?-

if the heal is out, your probably falling-

I thought if you break the plane- your out?


"Dirk Goldgar" <dgoldgar@NOalumni.SPAMprinceton.edu> wrote in message
news:sigma.17$IQ3.7984235@news.netcarrier.net...
> "Wolf" <wrbusson@mtu.edu> wrote in message
> news:v9hv3vilgqqn1f@corp.supernews.com...
> > > (b) Rear limits
> > >
> > > t.27 Should a competitor cross the rear limit of the strip
> completely -
> > > i.e. with both feet - a touch will be scored against him.
> >
> > Wasn't there not a rule that at least one foot had to remain in
> bounds at
> > the rear line? Thus one foot past the line w/ the front foot in the
> air was
> > a violation as well?
>
> No. Having the front foot in the air but still above the strip counts
> as being on the strip. Otherwise, you couldn't have the back foot off
> and then make an advance to get back on, since that would involve
> picking up your front foot.
>
> --
>
> Dirk Goldgar
>
> (to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)
>
>
>

[Dirk Goldgar]

"C-Sports" <csports@epconline.com> wrote in message
news:qdydnUMwLN35QQejXTWcow@accessus.net...
> Ok- if the entire foot has to be out,
>
> Then what is the ruling when there a raised strips?-
>
> if the heal is out, your probably falling-


A raised strip will always have a run-off area of 1.5m to 2m past the
end line, and 0.25m or more on either side of the lateral boundaries,
so you can have both feet off the end, or easily one foot off the
side, without falling off. The raised piste does definitely provide
an incentive to stay on the strip, though. I've seen injuries caused
by going off the strip.

> I thought if you break the plane- your out?

That's right, if I understand you. So long as you have your foot in
the volume of space above the strip, it's "on the strip". But if you
move it outside the vertical plane rising from the edge of the strip,
it's "off the strip." For all practical purposes, though, the referee
is unlikely to see that you have one foot outside the lateral boundary
of the strip until you actually put it down.

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

[C-Sports]

Ok- if the entire foot has to be out,

Then what is the ruling when there a raised strips?-

if the heal is out, your probably falling-

I thought if you break the plane- your out?


"Dirk Goldgar" <dgoldgar@NOalumni.SPAMprinceton.edu> wrote in message
news:sigma.17$IQ3.7984235@news.netcarrier.net...
> "Wolf" <wrbusson@mtu.edu> wrote in message
> news:v9hv3vilgqqn1f@corp.supernews.com...
> > > (b) Rear limits
> > >
> > > t.27 Should a competitor cross the rear limit of the strip
> completely -
> > > i.e. with both feet - a touch will be scored against him.
> >
> > Wasn't there not a rule that at least one foot had to remain in
> bounds at
> > the rear line? Thus one foot past the line w/ the front foot in the
> air was
> > a violation as well?
>
> No. Having the front foot in the air but still above the strip counts
> as being on the strip. Otherwise, you couldn't have the back foot off
> and then make an advance to get back on, since that would involve
> picking up your front foot.
>
> --
>
> Dirk Goldgar
>
> (to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)
>
>
>

[Dirk Goldgar]

"C-Sports" <csports@epconline.com> wrote in message
news:qdydnUMwLN35QQejXTWcow@accessus.net...
> Ok- if the entire foot has to be out,
>
> Then what is the ruling when there a raised strips?-
>
> if the heal is out, your probably falling-


A raised strip will always have a run-off area of 1.5m to 2m past the
end line, and 0.25m or more on either side of the lateral boundaries,
so you can have both feet off the end, or easily one foot off the
side, without falling off. The raised piste does definitely provide
an incentive to stay on the strip, though. I've seen injuries caused
by going off the strip.

> I thought if you break the plane- your out?

That's right, if I understand you. So long as you have your foot in
the volume of space above the strip, it's "on the strip". But if you
move it outside the vertical plane rising from the edge of the strip,
it's "off the strip." For all practical purposes, though, the referee
is unlikely to see that you have one foot outside the lateral boundary
of the strip until you actually put it down.

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)