bending a new sabre blade

What's the best way to put a slight bend in a new sabre blade? I've
searched the back threads of r.s.f without satisfaction. I know, "just bend
it" - but seems to me there's a danger of over-bending, which can't be
undone. (This blade is rather stiff.) Will keeping the blade in a bent
state for awhile (e.g. with some string) cause the bend to "take"? Any
suggestions appreciated.

Pat

In article <Xns933BD3E0FB731tsr5634989BCrsgd452@63.240.76.16> , "Patrick C."
<pat@outer-omittoreply-reaches.com> writes:

>What's the best way to put a slight bend in a new sabre blade? I've
>searched the back threads of r.s.f without satisfaction. I know, "just bend
>it" - but seems to me there's a danger of over-bending, which can't be
>undone. (This blade is rather stiff.)



Will keeping the blade in a bent
>state for awhile (e.g. with some string) cause the bend to "take"?
No

Any
>suggestions appreciated.

It is not the easiest thing to explain. If you watched someone do it you would
immediately know how.

Best Description I can think of, for right handed fencer.

Put the blade down on a surface that you don't mind scratching with the tang to
the right and the thicker part away from you.

Put your left foot on the blade about 16 inches from the end.

Pick up the tang so the blade is about 30-45 degrees from the horizontal.

Pull the blade slowly out from under your foot. Repeat if necessary.

Don't put too much bend in it, about one inch deviation is plenty. You just
want it always to bend in the same direction. If you try to bend it too much,
you might break it.

Bill Hall

In article <Xns933BD3E0FB731tsr5634989BCrsgd452@63.240.76.16> , "Patrick C."
<pat@outer-omittoreply-reaches.com> writes:

>What's the best way to put a slight bend in a new sabre blade? I've
>searched the back threads of r.s.f without satisfaction. I know, "just bend
>it" - but seems to me there's a danger of over-bending, which can't be
>undone. (This blade is rather stiff.)



Will keeping the blade in a bent
>state for awhile (e.g. with some string) cause the bend to "take"?
No

Any
>suggestions appreciated.

It is not the easiest thing to explain. If you watched someone do it you would
immediately know how.

Best Description I can think of, for right handed fencer.

Put the blade down on a surface that you don't mind scratching with the tang to
the right and the thicker part away from you.

Put your left foot on the blade about 16 inches from the end.

Pick up the tang so the blade is about 30-45 degrees from the horizontal.

Pull the blade slowly out from under your foot. Repeat if necessary.

Don't put too much bend in it, about one inch deviation is plenty. You just
want it always to bend in the same direction. If you try to bend it too much,
you might break it.

Bill Hall

Are we talking about training a curve into a blade, or bending the blade at
the tang to balance it initially before mounting it in a guard?

The best way to do the latter is to lock it into a bench vise, and bend the
blade in (to the left if you're a righty, the opposite for lefties), and
down. The deviation of the blade from center is probably best at about five
to ten degrees, depending on your on guard, and depending on how your hand
feels when you make a head riposte. A properly balanced blade will flow
straight down from a well- executed riposte from quinte to head, not twist
in your hand either inward or outward.

To train a curve into a blade, the best way is to use it. The quickest way
to force a curve into a blade is to take the loop on the end of an
adjustable crescent wrench, fit it over the blade, and squeeze the wrench
against the blade, putting graduated bends in multiple places along the
blade.

Regards,

Matthew

"Fencerbill" <fencerbill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030312002757.05048.00001082@mb-cs.aol.com...
> In article <Xns933BD3E0FB731tsr5634989BCrsgd452@63.240.76.16> , "Patrick
C."
> <pat@outer-omittoreply-reaches.com> writes:
>
> >What's the best way to put a slight bend in a new sabre blade? I've
> >searched the back threads of r.s.f without satisfaction. I know, "just
bend
> >it" - but seems to me there's a danger of over-bending, which can't be
> >undone. (This blade is rather stiff.)
>
>
>
> Will keeping the blade in a bent
> >state for awhile (e.g. with some string) cause the bend to "take"?
> No
>
> Any
> >suggestions appreciated.
>
> It is not the easiest thing to explain. If you watched someone do it you
would
> immediately know how.
>
> Best Description I can think of, for right handed fencer.
>
> Put the blade down on a surface that you don't mind scratching with the
tang to
> the right and the thicker part away from you.
>
> Put your left foot on the blade about 16 inches from the end.
>
> Pick up the tang so the blade is about 30-45 degrees from the horizontal.
>
> Pull the blade slowly out from under your foot. Repeat if necessary.
>
> Don't put too much bend in it, about one inch deviation is plenty. You
just
> want it always to bend in the same direction. If you try to bend it too
much,
> you might break it.
>
> Bill Hall
>
>

Are we talking about training a curve into a blade, or bending the blade at
the tang to balance it initially before mounting it in a guard?

The best way to do the latter is to lock it into a bench vise, and bend the
blade in (to the left if you're a righty, the opposite for lefties), and
down. The deviation of the blade from center is probably best at about five
to ten degrees, depending on your on guard, and depending on how your hand
feels when you make a head riposte. A properly balanced blade will flow
straight down from a well- executed riposte from quinte to head, not twist
in your hand either inward or outward.

To train a curve into a blade, the best way is to use it. The quickest way
to force a curve into a blade is to take the loop on the end of an
adjustable crescent wrench, fit it over the blade, and squeeze the wrench
against the blade, putting graduated bends in multiple places along the
blade.

Regards,

Matthew

"Fencerbill" <fencerbill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030312002757.05048.00001082@mb-cs.aol.com...
> In article <Xns933BD3E0FB731tsr5634989BCrsgd452@63.240.76.16> , "Patrick
C."
> <pat@outer-omittoreply-reaches.com> writes:
>
> >What's the best way to put a slight bend in a new sabre blade? I've
> >searched the back threads of r.s.f without satisfaction. I know, "just
bend
> >it" - but seems to me there's a danger of over-bending, which can't be
> >undone. (This blade is rather stiff.)
>
>
>
> Will keeping the blade in a bent
> >state for awhile (e.g. with some string) cause the bend to "take"?
> No
>
> Any
> >suggestions appreciated.
>
> It is not the easiest thing to explain. If you watched someone do it you
would
> immediately know how.
>
> Best Description I can think of, for right handed fencer.
>
> Put the blade down on a surface that you don't mind scratching with the
tang to
> the right and the thicker part away from you.
>
> Put your left foot on the blade about 16 inches from the end.
>
> Pick up the tang so the blade is about 30-45 degrees from the horizontal.
>
> Pull the blade slowly out from under your foot. Repeat if necessary.
>
> Don't put too much bend in it, about one inch deviation is plenty. You
just
> want it always to bend in the same direction. If you try to bend it too
much,
> you might break it.
>
> Bill Hall
>
>

I use the method Bill described, with the proviso that I run it back
and forth between shoe sole and floor surface ( carpet is good )
several times, keeping pressure on it, to friction-heat it a bit, on
the theory that a cold blade is more likely to break than a warm one.
This may be wholly unnecessary, but it's how I was taught to do it and
so how I've always done it...

I use the method Bill described, with the proviso that I run it back
and forth between shoe sole and floor surface ( carpet is good )
several times, keeping pressure on it, to friction-heat it a bit, on
the theory that a cold blade is more likely to break than a warm one.
This may be wholly unnecessary, but it's how I was taught to do it and
so how I've always done it...

Thanks for the suggestions. I've tried the shoe/floor thing about 5 times,
and the blade is still straight as a laser beam. Well maybe it's just a
matter of repetition...

Thanks for the suggestions. I've tried the shoe/floor thing about 5 times,
and the blade is still straight as a laser beam. Well maybe it's just a
matter of repetition...

"Patrick C." <pat@outer-omittoreply-reaches.com> wrote in
news:Xns933E755637D3Ftsr5634989BCrsgd452@63.240.76 .16:

>
> Thanks for the suggestions. I've tried the shoe/floor thing about 5
> times, and the blade is still straight as a laser beam. Well maybe
> it's just a matter of repetition...

It's also worth noting that the 2000 blades (and some even more so
within that group) are MUCH less susceptible to bending than non-2000
blades. By design - they're intended to be less flexible, and you simply
won't get the kind of curve you can easily get with a spaghetti blade.

My current sabre blades are, as you say, straight as laser beams and
won't take any appreciable bend under normal circumstances (ie., they do
bend when my opponent shish-kebobs himself onto my point in line at full
speed). I actually like them this way, though it may be an acquired
taste.

--Holly

"Patrick C." <pat@outer-omittoreply-reaches.com> wrote in
news:Xns933E755637D3Ftsr5634989BCrsgd452@63.240.76 .16:

>
> Thanks for the suggestions. I've tried the shoe/floor thing about 5
> times, and the blade is still straight as a laser beam. Well maybe
> it's just a matter of repetition...

It's also worth noting that the 2000 blades (and some even more so
within that group) are MUCH less susceptible to bending than non-2000
blades. By design - they're intended to be less flexible, and you simply
won't get the kind of curve you can easily get with a spaghetti blade.

My current sabre blades are, as you say, straight as laser beams and
won't take any appreciable bend under normal circumstances (ie., they do
bend when my opponent shish-kebobs himself onto my point in line at full
speed). I actually like them this way, though it may be an acquired
taste.

--Holly

The main problems with straight blades, as I see it, are:

(a) Without a preset bend they are equally likely to bend in either
direction when used for a point attack or stop thrust. Bending back
and forth like that tends to stress the steel more than bending it the
same way every time. Hence it may not last as long.

(b) They cannot "reach around" or over an opponent's guard for an arm
or wrist cut as well as a curved blade can.

The main problems with straight blades, as I see it, are:

(a) Without a preset bend they are equally likely to bend in either
direction when used for a point attack or stop thrust. Bending back
and forth like that tends to stress the steel more than bending it the
same way every time. Hence it may not last as long.

(b) They cannot "reach around" or over an opponent's guard for an arm
or wrist cut as well as a curved blade can.

trebuchet30303@yahoo.com (William Marshal) wrote in
news:dc7987e.0303172112.5357bcb9@posting.google.co m:

> The main problems with straight blades, as I see it, are:
>
> (a) Without a preset bend they are equally likely to bend in either
> direction when used for a point attack or stop thrust. Bending back
> and forth like that tends to stress the steel more than bending it
> the same way every time. Hence it may not last as long.

Hm. Good point. I've actually found, though, that when my (quite
straight) sabre blades bend, they *do* bend almost all of the time in
the right direction. I wonder if it's because I actually do spend
some time flexing them in the correct way, and they've kind of
"taken" the bend even though they are straight to the naked eye?
(Alternately, I could just be lucky)

> (b) They cannot "reach around" or over an opponent's guard for an
> arm or wrist cut as well as a curved blade can.

Now that the hand is no longer target, that's much less the case than
it was. In fact, I would argue from what I've seen that if a fencer
requires a curved blade in order to make a wrist cut, then he or she
isn't using his wrist and fingers correctly. (*)

A bend in the blade that's significant enough to aid in getting a
wrist cut will only be effective when the wrist is attacked from a
particular angle, anyway - come in from a different angle, or try to
make a finicky cut somewhere else on the body, and that same
curvature is just as likely to be a *dis*advantage.

*) And I'd add that it seems like one of the major differences
between intermediate and upper-level sabre seems to be (in my
observation) how well the fencer can manipulate the blade with the
fingers.

--Holly

trebuchet30303@yahoo.com (William Marshal) wrote in
news:dc7987e.0303172112.5357bcb9@posting.google.co m:

> The main problems with straight blades, as I see it, are:
>
> (a) Without a preset bend they are equally likely to bend in either
> direction when used for a point attack or stop thrust. Bending back
> and forth like that tends to stress the steel more than bending it
> the same way every time. Hence it may not last as long.

Hm. Good point. I've actually found, though, that when my (quite
straight) sabre blades bend, they *do* bend almost all of the time in
the right direction. I wonder if it's because I actually do spend
some time flexing them in the correct way, and they've kind of
"taken" the bend even though they are straight to the naked eye?
(Alternately, I could just be lucky)

> (b) They cannot "reach around" or over an opponent's guard for an
> arm or wrist cut as well as a curved blade can.

Now that the hand is no longer target, that's much less the case than
it was. In fact, I would argue from what I've seen that if a fencer
requires a curved blade in order to make a wrist cut, then he or she
isn't using his wrist and fingers correctly. (*)

A bend in the blade that's significant enough to aid in getting a
wrist cut will only be effective when the wrist is attacked from a
particular angle, anyway - come in from a different angle, or try to
make a finicky cut somewhere else on the body, and that same
curvature is just as likely to be a *dis*advantage.

*) And I'd add that it seems like one of the major differences
between intermediate and upper-level sabre seems to be (in my
observation) how well the fencer can manipulate the blade with the
fingers.

--Holly

Holly E. Ordway wrote:

>Hm. Good point. I've actually found, though, that when my (quite
>straight) sabre blades bend, they *do* bend almost all of the time in
>the right direction. I wonder if it's because I actually do spend
>some time flexing them in the correct way, and they've kind of
>"taken" the bend even though they are straight to the naked eye?
>(Alternately, I could just be lucky)
>
Do you hit going up or hit going down? If you hit going up consistently,
then the blade will get a concave (upwards) bend. If you hit going down,
the opposite. I see this all the time in beginners foil.

>--Holly
>
>

Off topic question: Will the electric sabre register off targets? If I
hit my opponent's leg, will it register off-target (and why) or will it
only count the touch I make on the second hit to his torso?

Thanks.

--
Amy and Joseph Kormann

Holly E. Ordway wrote:

>Hm. Good point. I've actually found, though, that when my (quite
>straight) sabre blades bend, they *do* bend almost all of the time in
>the right direction. I wonder if it's because I actually do spend
>some time flexing them in the correct way, and they've kind of
>"taken" the bend even though they are straight to the naked eye?
>(Alternately, I could just be lucky)
>
Do you hit going up or hit going down? If you hit going up consistently,
then the blade will get a concave (upwards) bend. If you hit going down,
the opposite. I see this all the time in beginners foil.

>--Holly
>
>

Off topic question: Will the electric sabre register off targets? If I
hit my opponent's leg, will it register off-target (and why) or will it
only count the touch I make on the second hit to his torso?

Thanks.

--
Amy and Joseph Kormann

Amy & Joseph Kormann <ajkormann@monmouth.com> wrote in
news:3E77D3FA.3090307@monmouth.com:

> Holly E. Ordway wrote:
>
>>Hm. Good point. I've actually found, though, that when my (quite
>>straight) sabre blades bend, they *do* bend almost all of the time
>>in the right direction.
>>
> Do you hit going up or hit going down? If you hit going up
> consistently, then the blade will get a concave (upwards) bend. If
> you hit going down, the opposite. I see this all the time in
> beginners foil.

Um, neither. Sabre hits are nearly all with the edge, so there's no
reason for it to bend either way if the hit is clean. Most of the
time, the only times when the blade does bend, it's when I've done a
point in line.

(On the other hand, I know exactly what you mean - in foil I've gotten
all sorts of odd kinks in my blade.)

> Off topic question: Will the electric sabre register off targets?
> If I hit my opponent's leg, will it register off-target (and why)
> or will it only count the touch I make on the second hit to his
> torso?

No, there are no off-target lights in sabre - if you hit your opponent
on the leg, no light will go off at all; if you then hit the torso,
you will get a colored light.

Cheers,
Holly

Amy & Joseph Kormann <ajkormann@monmouth.com> wrote in
news:3E77D3FA.3090307@monmouth.com:

> Holly E. Ordway wrote:
>
>>Hm. Good point. I've actually found, though, that when my (quite
>>straight) sabre blades bend, they *do* bend almost all of the time
>>in the right direction.
>>
> Do you hit going up or hit going down? If you hit going up
> consistently, then the blade will get a concave (upwards) bend. If
> you hit going down, the opposite. I see this all the time in
> beginners foil.

Um, neither. Sabre hits are nearly all with the edge, so there's no
reason for it to bend either way if the hit is clean. Most of the
time, the only times when the blade does bend, it's when I've done a
point in line.

(On the other hand, I know exactly what you mean - in foil I've gotten
all sorts of odd kinks in my blade.)

> Off topic question: Will the electric sabre register off targets?
> If I hit my opponent's leg, will it register off-target (and why)
> or will it only count the touch I make on the second hit to his
> torso?

No, there are no off-target lights in sabre - if you hit your opponent
on the leg, no light will go off at all; if you then hit the torso,
you will get a colored light.

Cheers,
Holly

Amy & Joseph Kormann <ajkormann@monmouth.com> wrote

> Off topic question: Will the electric sabre register off targets? If I
> hit my opponent's leg, will it register off-target (and why) or will it
> only count the touch I make on the second hit to his torso?


The reason foils will register an off-target touch is that the
depression of a spring-loaded point closes a circuit. Any solid
surface will suffice to depress the tip.

With sabre, there is no such circuit. The whole blade carries a
microcharge of electricity. It can only close a circuit which is
conductive and wired into the system, such as the lame or mask.
Off-target hits will not register. The legs are not part of the closed
system.