Eager to learn the Art

Hello Folks.
I am very much interested in the Art of Fencing and have already started
searching for a club in which to join. Could someone kinldy offer to eplain
the differences between foil, epee and saber to me? I would like to attend
my first lesson with some knowledge of the Art.

Thank you

Dave

"Dave Bower" <dwb@cogeco.ca> wrote in message news:<6txba.88242$L47.13638745@read2.cgocable.net> ...
> Hello Folks.
> I am very much interested in the Art of Fencing and have already started
> searching for a club in which to join. Could someone kinldy offer to eplain
> the differences between foil, epee and saber to me? I would like to attend
> my first lesson with some knowledge of the Art.
>
> Thank you
>
> Dave

Foil: IMHO the most sophisticated and difficult of the 3 weapons. It
used to be quite common that the foil was first in the pedagogical
order of things. The target is the torso only, no arms head or legs.
There is a concept called 'right of way' wherein one must establish a
clear attack and the defender must parry the blade to regain the
ability to attack. It is possible to score but somewhat difficult to
counter attack(IOW attacking without right of way" in that if both
opponents score, which they often do, then the point is awarded to the
attacker. Having said that there are ways to counterattack and score
rather easily. Right of way is determined by a thrid party observant
who interprets the action and the scoring machine. he is called the
director. In some sense its like a debate wherein you try to convince
a 3rd party or judge that you are correct in you actions and that your
opponent has failed or erred in some way.

Personally, it is the most elegant of the 3 weapons and I enjoy it
rather much.

Epee: descendant from the dueling rapier; anywhere on the body is
legal target. If both people land, both get points. If one lands
1/20th of a second before the other, then one gets a point. Hits to
the arm are the most common attack. This weapon can be rather brutal.
It often feels as if your being punched with a metal stick, despite
the persons rank. To be fair, I have seen elegant epee but not often.
Tends to be a straight on affair with tight parries and fast action;
but doesn't aesthetically LOOK like swordplay...at least not to me.

Sabre: The easiest IMHO of the 3 weapon. Like foil it has right of way
but the target area includes the arms and the head as well as the
torso. It is characterized by fast body movements and short 'phrases'
which can be defined as times during the bout where the blades cross.
Foil can and usualy has longer phrases. Though it is possiblt to score
with the point, this is a slashing weapon with the arm and head as
primary targets.


Very short exp. but I'm partial to foil. i'll do the other 2 as some
amusement, but others take epee and sabre more seriously.

Just my 2 cents,

Phillip J. Inoy

"Dave Bower" <dwb@cogeco.ca> wrote in message news:<6txba.88242$L47.13638745@read2.cgocable.net> ...
> Hello Folks.
> I am very much interested in the Art of Fencing and have already started
> searching for a club in which to join. Could someone kinldy offer to eplain
> the differences between foil, epee and saber to me? I would like to attend
> my first lesson with some knowledge of the Art.
>
> Thank you
>
> Dave

Foil: IMHO the most sophisticated and difficult of the 3 weapons. It
used to be quite common that the foil was first in the pedagogical
order of things. The target is the torso only, no arms head or legs.
There is a concept called 'right of way' wherein one must establish a
clear attack and the defender must parry the blade to regain the
ability to attack. It is possible to score but somewhat difficult to
counter attack(IOW attacking without right of way" in that if both
opponents score, which they often do, then the point is awarded to the
attacker. Having said that there are ways to counterattack and score
rather easily. Right of way is determined by a thrid party observant
who interprets the action and the scoring machine. he is called the
director. In some sense its like a debate wherein you try to convince
a 3rd party or judge that you are correct in you actions and that your
opponent has failed or erred in some way.

Personally, it is the most elegant of the 3 weapons and I enjoy it
rather much.

Epee: descendant from the dueling rapier; anywhere on the body is
legal target. If both people land, both get points. If one lands
1/20th of a second before the other, then one gets a point. Hits to
the arm are the most common attack. This weapon can be rather brutal.
It often feels as if your being punched with a metal stick, despite
the persons rank. To be fair, I have seen elegant epee but not often.
Tends to be a straight on affair with tight parries and fast action;
but doesn't aesthetically LOOK like swordplay...at least not to me.

Sabre: The easiest IMHO of the 3 weapon. Like foil it has right of way
but the target area includes the arms and the head as well as the
torso. It is characterized by fast body movements and short 'phrases'
which can be defined as times during the bout where the blades cross.
Foil can and usualy has longer phrases. Though it is possiblt to score
with the point, this is a slashing weapon with the arm and head as
primary targets.


Very short exp. but I'm partial to foil. i'll do the other 2 as some
amusement, but others take epee and sabre more seriously.

Just my 2 cents,

Phillip J. Inoy

Dave,
There are a number of good books on the subject of fencing which can
give the beginner some sense of the differences in weapons, but the best
course of action would be to go to a local club and see which weapon
feels right for you. Reading a recipe only hints at the taste of the meal.
You didn't say where you are located and that may be the deciding
factor. Some clubs only offer classes in a single weapon, often foil.

Byron

Dave,
There are a number of good books on the subject of fencing which can
give the beginner some sense of the differences in weapons, but the best
course of action would be to go to a local club and see which weapon
feels right for you. Reading a recipe only hints at the taste of the meal.
You didn't say where you are located and that may be the deciding
factor. Some clubs only offer classes in a single weapon, often foil.

Byron

"Dave Bower" <dwb@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:6txba.88242$L47.13638745@read2.cgocable.net.. .
> Hello Folks.
> I am very much interested in the Art of Fencing and have already
started
> searching for a club in which to join. Could someone kinldy offer to
eplain
> the differences between foil, epee and saber to me? I would like to
attend
> my first lesson with some knowledge of the Art.

You may find it useful to look over the (rather large) FAQ document
for this newsgroup. It's posted periodically in three parts, both
here and in the <news.answers> newsgroup. I don't remember when it
was last posted, but if you download enough message headers you should
find it. If you don't you might try searching Google Groups
(http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search) for the keyword "FAQ"
in newsgroup "rec.sport.fencing".

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

"Dave Bower" <dwb@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:6txba.88242$L47.13638745@read2.cgocable.net.. .
> Hello Folks.
> I am very much interested in the Art of Fencing and have already
started
> searching for a club in which to join. Could someone kinldy offer to
eplain
> the differences between foil, epee and saber to me? I would like to
attend
> my first lesson with some knowledge of the Art.

You may find it useful to look over the (rather large) FAQ document
for this newsgroup. It's posted periodically in three parts, both
here and in the <news.answers> newsgroup. I don't remember when it
was last posted, but if you download enough message headers you should
find it. If you don't you might try searching Google Groups
(http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search) for the keyword "FAQ"
in newsgroup "rec.sport.fencing".

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

"Dave Bower" <dwb@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:<6txba.88242$L47.13638745@read2.cgocable.net> ...
> Hello Folks.
> I am very much interested in the Art of Fencing and have already started
> searching for a club in which to join. Could someone kinldy offer to eplain
> the differences between foil, epee and saber to me? I would like to attend
> my first lesson with some knowledge of the Art.
>

I think the first thing you need to decide is whether you want
to do modern fencing or study tradition/classical techniques.

If modern then
1) stop calling it an art and start calling it a sport, and
2) go to <http://www.usfencing.com> and you'll find all the
information you'll need, either via the brief introduction
to the 3 weapons or if you prefer, you can download the
complete rules.

If classical...then I'm sure someone else can point you in
the right direction.
Simon.

"Dave Bower" <dwb@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:<6txba.88242$L47.13638745@read2.cgocable.net> ...
> Hello Folks.
> I am very much interested in the Art of Fencing and have already started
> searching for a club in which to join. Could someone kinldy offer to eplain
> the differences between foil, epee and saber to me? I would like to attend
> my first lesson with some knowledge of the Art.
>

I think the first thing you need to decide is whether you want
to do modern fencing or study tradition/classical techniques.

If modern then
1) stop calling it an art and start calling it a sport, and
2) go to <http://www.usfencing.com> and you'll find all the
information you'll need, either via the brief introduction
to the 3 weapons or if you prefer, you can download the
complete rules.

If classical...then I'm sure someone else can point you in
the right direction.
Simon.

"Dave Bower" <dwb@cogeco.ca> wrote in
news:6txba.88242$L47.13638745@read2.cgocable.net:

> Hello Folks.
> I am very much interested in the Art of Fencing and have
> already started searching for a club in which to join.

Where are you located? People here may be able to help you with club
recommendations.

> Could
> someone kinldy offer to eplain the differences between foil,
> epee and saber to me? I would like to attend my first lesson
> with some knowledge of the Art.

I second the recommendation to read the FAQ for this group -- it's a
big document, but when I was starting out, it was a great
introduction to the general layout of the sport, including things
like the differences between the weapons. (Short version: they have
different legal targets and ways of attacking. But -- and this is
important -- it takes seeing them in action to really get a feel for
which one you'll love. When I started out, I was sure I'd want to
get past foil as quickly as possible and move on to epee -- now I'm
a dedicated foilist who thinks sabre is great fun on the side, but
with hardly any interest in epee at all.)

Talk to the instructors at whatever clubs you find before going on.
They probably won't require any previous knowledge before you start.
They definitely will have an opinion about what weapons you start
with. It's traditional to require beginners to start out fencing
foil only, but some schools feel otherwise. And if you google,
you'll find that the debate between the two goes back for eons....
Either way, talk to people, observe a class or two if you can, and
find an instructor you're comfortable with. Then, do whatever weapon
she sticks you with.

--
Amy

"Dave Bower" <dwb@cogeco.ca> wrote in
news:6txba.88242$L47.13638745@read2.cgocable.net:

> Hello Folks.
> I am very much interested in the Art of Fencing and have
> already started searching for a club in which to join.

Where are you located? People here may be able to help you with club
recommendations.

> Could
> someone kinldy offer to eplain the differences between foil,
> epee and saber to me? I would like to attend my first lesson
> with some knowledge of the Art.

I second the recommendation to read the FAQ for this group -- it's a
big document, but when I was starting out, it was a great
introduction to the general layout of the sport, including things
like the differences between the weapons. (Short version: they have
different legal targets and ways of attacking. But -- and this is
important -- it takes seeing them in action to really get a feel for
which one you'll love. When I started out, I was sure I'd want to
get past foil as quickly as possible and move on to epee -- now I'm
a dedicated foilist who thinks sabre is great fun on the side, but
with hardly any interest in epee at all.)

Talk to the instructors at whatever clubs you find before going on.
They probably won't require any previous knowledge before you start.
They definitely will have an opinion about what weapons you start
with. It's traditional to require beginners to start out fencing
foil only, but some schools feel otherwise. And if you google,
you'll find that the debate between the two goes back for eons....
Either way, talk to people, observe a class or two if you can, and
find an instructor you're comfortable with. Then, do whatever weapon
she sticks you with.

--
Amy

"Simon Summerfield" <simonrs@unimelb.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3E6FB75E.374A6FBC@unimelb.edu.au...
[snip]
> 2) go to <http://www.usfencing.com> and you'll find all the
> information you'll need

Correction: it's ".org", not ".com" -- www.usfencing.org .

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

"Simon Summerfield" <simonrs@unimelb.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3E6FB75E.374A6FBC@unimelb.edu.au...
[snip]
> 2) go to <http://www.usfencing.com> and you'll find all the
> information you'll need

Correction: it's ".org", not ".com" -- www.usfencing.org .

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

Actually, they've got the usfencing.com URL reserved and directed to the
USFA website (just tried it).


-Dave

Dirk Goldgar wrote:

> "Simon Summerfield" <simonrs@unimelb.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:3E6FB75E.374A6FBC@unimelb.edu.au...
> [snip]
> > 2) go to <http://www.usfencing.com> and you'll find all the
> > information you'll need
>
> Correction: it's ".org", not ".com" -- www.usfencing.org .
>
> --
>
> Dirk Goldgar
>
> (to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

David Neevel wrote:
>
> Dirk Goldgar wrote:
>
> > "Simon Summerfield" <simonrs@unimelb.edu.au> wrote in message
> > news:3E6FB75E.374A6FBC@unimelb.edu.au...
> > [snip]
> > > 2) go to <http://www.usfencing.com> and you'll find all the
> > > information you'll need
> >
> > Correction: it's ".org", not ".com" -- www.usfencing.org .
> >
> > --
> >
> > Dirk Goldgar
> >
> > (to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)
>
> Actually, they've got the usfencing.com URL reserved and directed to the
> USFA website (just tried it).
>

Yep. And www.usfa.org as well.
Although not www.usfa.com which goes...somewhere else :-)
Simon.

(but at least it isn't X rated)

David Neevel wrote:
>
> Dirk Goldgar wrote:
>
> > "Simon Summerfield" <simonrs@unimelb.edu.au> wrote in message
> > news:3E6FB75E.374A6FBC@unimelb.edu.au...
> > [snip]
> > > 2) go to <http://www.usfencing.com> and you'll find all the
> > > information you'll need
> >
> > Correction: it's ".org", not ".com" -- www.usfencing.org .
> >
> > --
> >
> > Dirk Goldgar
> >
> > (to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)
>
> Actually, they've got the usfencing.com URL reserved and directed to the
> USFA website (just tried it).
>

Yep. And www.usfa.org as well.
Although not www.usfa.com which goes...somewhere else :-)
Simon.

(but at least it isn't X rated)

"Simon Summerfield" <simonrs@unimelb.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3E714489.AAAF05E3@unimelb.edu.au...
> David Neevel wrote:
> >
> > Dirk Goldgar wrote:
> >
> > > "Simon Summerfield" <simonrs@unimelb.edu.au> wrote in message
> > > news:3E6FB75E.374A6FBC@unimelb.edu.au...
> > > [snip]
> > > > 2) go to <http://www.usfencing.com> and you'll find all the
> > > > information you'll need
> > >
> > > Correction: it's ".org", not ".com" -- www.usfencing.org .
> >
> > Actually, they've got the usfencing.com URL reserved and directed
to the
> > USFA website (just tried it).

I didn't know they had usfencing.com as well. Thanks for the
correction of my correction, Dave.

> Yep. And www.usfa.org as well.
> Although not www.usfa.com which goes...somewhere else :-)
> Simon.
>
> (but at least it isn't X rated)

I seem to recall that usfa.com *was* X-rated, at least at night; I
thought that was why they changed the domain.

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

"Simon Summerfield" <simonrs@unimelb.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3E714489.AAAF05E3@unimelb.edu.au...
> David Neevel wrote:
> >
> > Dirk Goldgar wrote:
> >
> > > "Simon Summerfield" <simonrs@unimelb.edu.au> wrote in message
> > > news:3E6FB75E.374A6FBC@unimelb.edu.au...
> > > [snip]
> > > > 2) go to <http://www.usfencing.com> and you'll find all the
> > > > information you'll need
> > >
> > > Correction: it's ".org", not ".com" -- www.usfencing.org .
> >
> > Actually, they've got the usfencing.com URL reserved and directed
to the
> > USFA website (just tried it).

I didn't know they had usfencing.com as well. Thanks for the
correction of my correction, Dave.

> Yep. And www.usfa.org as well.
> Although not www.usfa.com which goes...somewhere else :-)
> Simon.
>
> (but at least it isn't X rated)

I seem to recall that usfa.com *was* X-rated, at least at night; I
thought that was why they changed the domain.

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

Hello Byron..
I am located near Kingston,Ontario ,Canada

"Byron" <byron.eye@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3E6F3395.1040700@verizon.net...
> Dave,
> There are a number of good books on the subject of fencing which can
> give the beginner some sense of the differences in weapons, but the best
> course of action would be to go to a local club and see which weapon
> feels right for you. Reading a recipe only hints at the taste of the meal.
> You didn't say where you are located and that may be the deciding
> factor. Some clubs only offer classes in a single weapon, often foil.
>
> Byron
>

Hello Byron..
I am located near Kingston,Ontario ,Canada

"Byron" <byron.eye@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3E6F3395.1040700@verizon.net...
> Dave,
> There are a number of good books on the subject of fencing which can
> give the beginner some sense of the differences in weapons, but the best
> course of action would be to go to a local club and see which weapon
> feels right for you. Reading a recipe only hints at the taste of the meal.
> You didn't say where you are located and that may be the deciding
> factor. Some clubs only offer classes in a single weapon, often foil.
>
> Byron
>