More bad TV fencing.

alison1daland@aol.com (Alison1daland) wrote in message news:<20030203172429.25293.00000260@mb-fe.aol.com>...
> >I didn't see the episode of Joe Millionaire, but I did see some pretty
> >bad TV fencing on Gilmore Girls recently.
> >
> >David
>
> I saw that too. Ordinarily I am a huge fan of Gilmore Girls, but that was just
> plain lame. I must admit it wasn't as bad as it could have been, but it wasn't
> what i was expecting, or at least hoping for, after watching the commercial.
> The producers and directors need to try a little bit harder...or maybe alot
> harder...
> ~Alison

I agree with Alison - the fencing on Gilmore Girls was lame. There
were two points I found funny though. 1, When Rory said to Paris
something like, How could you read my face? I am wearing a mask! Yet
you COULD see her face! I think they had a light inside their masks
because I cannot see the faces of my competitors like I could see
theirs on TV! And 2, what fencing instructor is going to let her
students run around her gym (off the fencing strip) swinging foils
around like windmills?

David

alison1daland@aol.com (Alison1daland) wrote in message news:<20030203172429.25293.00000260@mb-fe.aol.com>...
> >I didn't see the episode of Joe Millionaire, but I did see some pretty
> >bad TV fencing on Gilmore Girls recently.
> >
> >David
>
> I saw that too. Ordinarily I am a huge fan of Gilmore Girls, but that was just
> plain lame. I must admit it wasn't as bad as it could have been, but it wasn't
> what i was expecting, or at least hoping for, after watching the commercial.
> The producers and directors need to try a little bit harder...or maybe alot
> harder...
> ~Alison

I agree with Alison - the fencing on Gilmore Girls was lame. There
were two points I found funny though. 1, When Rory said to Paris
something like, How could you read my face? I am wearing a mask! Yet
you COULD see her face! I think they had a light inside their masks
because I cannot see the faces of my competitors like I could see
theirs on TV! And 2, what fencing instructor is going to let her
students run around her gym (off the fencing strip) swinging foils
around like windmills?

David

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 11:55:01 -0500, "David H"
<dahingos@nospam.monarchelectric.com> wrote:

>
>> I'm well aware of all that. The problem as I see it was with the
>> choreography that the director and the screenplay writers wanted. I
>> don't think the coach and the fencers had free rein to do as they
>> liked...
>
>Maybe that is the case....

It's very likely the case. I did a commercial once which featured
fencing. The director had us fence and was sorely disappointed since
all the actions were so small. He wanted "something bigger, bolder!"
So I said to my partner in crime, "He wants crash, bang, wallop. So
lets give him crash, bang, wallop!"

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 11:55:01 -0500, "David H"
<dahingos@nospam.monarchelectric.com> wrote:

>
>> I'm well aware of all that. The problem as I see it was with the
>> choreography that the director and the screenplay writers wanted. I
>> don't think the coach and the fencers had free rein to do as they
>> liked...
>
>Maybe that is the case....

It's very likely the case. I did a commercial once which featured
fencing. The director had us fence and was sorely disappointed since
all the actions were so small. He wanted "something bigger, bolder!"
So I said to my partner in crime, "He wants crash, bang, wallop. So
lets give him crash, bang, wallop!"

On 4 Feb 2003 23:10:33 -0600, Perry Quan
<ryersonfencing@yahoo.ca.invalid> held forth:

>So I said to my partner in crime, "He wants crash, bang, wallop. So
>lets give him crash, bang, wallop!"

Literally, I hope...
--
Cheers,
wreckferret
Use ROT13 to reply ICQ#163264

In rec.sport.fencing on 4 Feb 2003 23:10:33 -0600
Perry Quan <ryersonfencing@yahoo.ca.invalid> wrote:
>
>It's very likely the case. I did a commercial once which featured
>fencing. The director had us fence and was sorely disappointed since
>all the actions were so small. He wanted "something bigger, bolder!"
>So I said to my partner in crime, "He wants crash, bang, wallop. So
>lets give him crash, bang, wallop!"

Of course. For one thing, the object of the fencer is to make small
deceptive movements, so that no one can tell where the sword is, where
it's going, or the timing.

The object of the director is to show the audience that the swords are
moving, and to have them anticipate where they are going to go.

Plus the director will likely have things they want the fighting to
say. The obvious example of this is the fencing scene in The Court
Jester, where the moves Danny Kaye makes change drastically depending
on whether he's the scared Giacomo or the hypnotised brave one. The
movements have to be exaggerated so the audience can read the body
language.

Not to mention that the actors have to learn the routine so they can
do it fast enough to look "right", and not hurt each other. If they
aren't fencers, then either it's got to be simple moves with swords
clashing together well off target, or it takes days and days of
rehearsal. Or you use someone else... much of the fencing scene in
the 1937 Prisoner of Zenda takes place at long distance because the
fencing master was standing in for Ronald Colman.

Stage fencing is an art with its own needs and rules. Annoying as
hell, because if someone sees a movie and wants to learn to fight with
sowrds, they don't want modern fencing, they want to fight like the
movies. The SCA armoured combat is the closest for untrained people,
and that's usually too much work and too many bruises So fencers -
modern, classical, historic - have to work out how to enthuse them
with real fencing.

has anyone worked out what things about modern fencing strike a chord
with the average bod who only knows movie fencing?

Zebee


--
Zebee Johnstone (zebee@zip.com.au), proud holder of
aus.motorcycles Poser Permit #1.
"Motorcycles are like peanuts... who can stop at just one?"

In rec.sport.fencing on 4 Feb 2003 23:10:33 -0600
Perry Quan <ryersonfencing@yahoo.ca.invalid> wrote:
>
>It's very likely the case. I did a commercial once which featured
>fencing. The director had us fence and was sorely disappointed since
>all the actions were so small. He wanted "something bigger, bolder!"
>So I said to my partner in crime, "He wants crash, bang, wallop. So
>lets give him crash, bang, wallop!"

Of course. For one thing, the object of the fencer is to make small
deceptive movements, so that no one can tell where the sword is, where
it's going, or the timing.

The object of the director is to show the audience that the swords are
moving, and to have them anticipate where they are going to go.

Plus the director will likely have things they want the fighting to
say. The obvious example of this is the fencing scene in The Court
Jester, where the moves Danny Kaye makes change drastically depending
on whether he's the scared Giacomo or the hypnotised brave one. The
movements have to be exaggerated so the audience can read the body
language.

Not to mention that the actors have to learn the routine so they can
do it fast enough to look "right", and not hurt each other. If they
aren't fencers, then either it's got to be simple moves with swords
clashing together well off target, or it takes days and days of
rehearsal. Or you use someone else... much of the fencing scene in
the 1937 Prisoner of Zenda takes place at long distance because the
fencing master was standing in for Ronald Colman.

Stage fencing is an art with its own needs and rules. Annoying as
hell, because if someone sees a movie and wants to learn to fight with
sowrds, they don't want modern fencing, they want to fight like the
movies. The SCA armoured combat is the closest for untrained people,
and that's usually too much work and too many bruises So fencers -
modern, classical, historic - have to work out how to enthuse them
with real fencing.

has anyone worked out what things about modern fencing strike a chord
with the average bod who only knows movie fencing?

Zebee


--
Zebee Johnstone (zebee@zip.com.au), proud holder of
aus.motorcycles Poser Permit #1.
"Motorcycles are like peanuts... who can stop at just one?"

On 5 Feb 2003 08:24:40 GMT, zebee@zip.com.au (Zebee Johnstone) held
forth:

>has anyone worked out what things about modern fencing strike a chord
>with the average bod who only knows movie fencing?

I'd have thought that the oft-stated comparison with chess may be a
factor.

For me, it's the whole gamut of emotions, the mental and physical
battle, the graceful [1] movement of two combatants on piste, the
shifty little deceptions and the intense competitiveness felt when
you're both at 14 and one of you's going to get knocked out.

Or it could be the joy of poking people with a long bit of metal...

[1] the author wishes to assert his right not to be associated in any
way with this term.
--
Cheers,
wreckferret
Use ROT13 to reply ICQ#163264

On 5 Feb 2003 08:24:40 GMT, zebee@zip.com.au (Zebee Johnstone) wrote:


>Stage fencing is an art with its own needs and rules. Annoying as


Oddly, he had started with actors who had stage combat training, but
didn't like "the look" that they presented and decided to rustle up a
pair of real fencers.

On 5 Feb 2003 08:24:40 GMT, zebee@zip.com.au (Zebee Johnstone) wrote:


>Stage fencing is an art with its own needs and rules. Annoying as


Oddly, he had started with actors who had stage combat training, but
didn't like "the look" that they presented and decided to rustle up a
pair of real fencers.

On Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:14:33 +0000 (UTC), wreckferret
<jerpxsreerg@hxez.arg> wrote:

>Or it could be the joy of poking people with a long bit of metal...

That's me! I like hitting people with pointed sticks.

On Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:14:33 +0000 (UTC), wreckferret
<jerpxsreerg@hxez.arg> wrote:

>Or it could be the joy of poking people with a long bit of metal...

That's me! I like hitting people with pointed sticks.

>You know the fencing in the Bond movie was all put together by Leon Paul
>fencing....they are advertising it on their site to no end. They supplied
>the equipment and recommended fencers, plus a British national coach
>apparently helped put together the action itself.

According to the new Book, By The Sword, by Richard Cohen, this coach/fight
choreographer is Bob Anderson who worked on some of my favorite movies, The
Princess Bride, Mask of Zorro, Lord of The Rings and, he even donned the Vader
suit for the light saber fights with Luke in SW:TESB and ROTJ.

I thought the fencing in the Bond movie looked real enough, at least until they
switched to broadswords, and even that wasn't to bad of a movie broadsword
fight. I did notice that they were fencing electric epee without wires though,
which is certainly wishful thinking.

BTW: By The Sword is a very engrossing book on the history of swordplay. It
gives an entertaining look at dueling and olympic fencing, and there are also
chapters on the Samuri, Hollywood fencing, swordmaking, and the Mensur. It's
well referenced and the naration is lively.



Jon

>You know the fencing in the Bond movie was all put together by Leon Paul
>fencing....they are advertising it on their site to no end. They supplied
>the equipment and recommended fencers, plus a British national coach
>apparently helped put together the action itself.

According to the new Book, By The Sword, by Richard Cohen, this coach/fight
choreographer is Bob Anderson who worked on some of my favorite movies, The
Princess Bride, Mask of Zorro, Lord of The Rings and, he even donned the Vader
suit for the light saber fights with Luke in SW:TESB and ROTJ.

I thought the fencing in the Bond movie looked real enough, at least until they
switched to broadswords, and even that wasn't to bad of a movie broadsword
fight. I did notice that they were fencing electric epee without wires though,
which is certainly wishful thinking.

BTW: By The Sword is a very engrossing book on the history of swordplay. It
gives an entertaining look at dueling and olympic fencing, and there are also
chapters on the Samuri, Hollywood fencing, swordmaking, and the Mensur. It's
well referenced and the naration is lively.



Jon