Ghost in the machine?

Howdy everyone,
I'm sure someone here can help me (hopefully, because I'm at my wits end
dealing with this issue) so here goes. I have two foils that are acting
quite peculiarly - during club bouts and a couple of times at tournaments -
I get random off target lights when I hit my opponents lame. We did the
obvious checking for dead spots and body cord problems, and everything seems
ok with their equipment. At a tournament, the director ended up changing
the floor cable which worked for the rest of that bout. I've changed
weapons during a bout (both club and tournament) when this starts happening
but they are foils I'm not as fond of...yes, I know you shouldn't
*technically* have a favorite weapon but it's inevitable for me. I've
re-wired the blades twice, and everything checks out on the Ohms meter, to
no avail and I've checked the tips for dents in the barrel (none that I can
see) and dirt inside and have cleaned, cleaned, cleaned...but it's still
happening. I've found recently that when it happens, I can twist the tip
and that will work for a few touches. I should mention that I'm using
German tips as that may determine what course of action to take. Aside from
telling me to switch back to French tips (parish the thought), could anyone
give me some suggestions for a cure? Thanks for the help.

bill...
--)-------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on
your computer."

On Sun, 05 Jan 2003 00:24:44 GMT, "Bill Powers" <nutziprs@pacbell.net>
wrote:

> Howdy everyone,
> I'm sure someone here can help me (hopefully, because I'm at my wits end
> dealing with this issue) so here goes. I have two foils that are acting
> quite peculiarly - during club bouts and a couple of times at tournaments -
> I get random off target lights when I hit my opponents lame. We did the
> obvious checking for dead spots and body cord problems, and everything seems
> ok with their equipment. At a tournament, the director ended up changing
> the floor cable which worked for the rest of that bout. I've changed
> weapons during a bout (both club and tournament) when this starts happening
> but they are foils I'm not as fond of...yes, I know you shouldn't
> *technically* have a favorite weapon but it's inevitable for me. I've
> re-wired the blades twice, and everything checks out on the Ohms meter, to
> no avail and I've checked the tips for dents in the barrel (none that I can
> see) and dirt inside and have cleaned, cleaned, cleaned...but it's still
> happening. I've found recently that when it happens, I can twist the tip
> and that will work for a few touches. I should mention that I'm using
> German tips as that may determine what course of action to take. Aside from
> telling me to switch back to French tips (parish the thought), could anyone
> give me some suggestions for a cure? Thanks for the help.

A couple of possibilities come to mind:

1. The tip may be starting to come apart, resulting in a poor
connection between the tip and the spring. If this is the case, you
may see a high resistance between the tip and the bodycord B line. If
the resistance is near the borderline of the machine's sensitivity,
the symptom may appear or disappear depending on which machine, reels,
and floor cables are in use. Replacing the tip should fix this.

2. A few months ago, I got a few German foil wires that had solder
flux (or some such crud) on the contacts. I had to scrape it off
before they'd conduct at all. This is much easier to do before the
wires are installed in the blade, but you might be able to get at it
with a long needle.

-Mark-

In article <3e17b24a.1394979@news.erols.com>, Mark C. Orton
<ortonmc+rsf@erols.com> writes
>On Sun, 05 Jan 2003 00:24:44 GMT, "Bill Powers" <nutziprs@pacbell.net>
>wrote:
>
>> Howdy everyone,
>> I'm sure someone here can help me (hopefully, because I'm at my wits end
>> dealing with this issue) so here goes. I have two foils that are acting
>> quite peculiarly - during club bouts and a couple of times at tournaments -
>> I get random off target lights when I hit my opponents lame. We did the
>> obvious checking for dead spots and body cord problems, and everything seems
>> ok with their equipment. At a tournament, the director ended up changing
>> the floor cable which worked for the rest of that bout. I've changed
>> weapons during a bout (both club and tournament) when this starts happening
>> but they are foils I'm not as fond of...yes, I know you shouldn't
>> *technically* have a favorite weapon but it's inevitable for me. I've
>> re-wired the blades twice, and everything checks out on the Ohms meter, to
>> no avail and I've checked the tips for dents in the barrel (none that I can
>> see) and dirt inside and have cleaned, cleaned, cleaned...but it's still
>> happening. I've found recently that when it happens, I can twist the tip
>> and that will work for a few touches. I should mention that I'm using
>> German tips as that may determine what course of action to take. Aside from
>> telling me to switch back to French tips (parish the thought), could anyone
>> give me some suggestions for a cure? Thanks for the help.
>
>A couple of possibilities come to mind:
>
>1. The tip may be starting to come apart, resulting in a poor
>connection between the tip and the spring. If this is the case, you
>may see a high resistance between the tip and the bodycord B line. If
>the resistance is near the borderline of the machine's sensitivity,
>the symptom may appear or disappear depending on which machine, reels,
>and floor cables are in use. Replacing the tip should fix this.
>
>2. A few months ago, I got a few German foil wires that had solder
>flux (or some such crud) on the contacts. I had to scrape it off
>before they'd conduct at all. This is much easier to do before the
>wires are installed in the blade, but you might be able to get at it
>with a long needle.
>
>-Mark-

If the problem survives a complete rewire (and replacement of the tip,
presumably), it's worth investigating other parts of the circuit.

Have you checked the bodywire you are using? If it has high resistance
then you can get some very strange effects. It should be under 1 ohm,
although you rarely see problems unless it's over about 10 ohm. (The
same is true of spools and ground-leads, obviously). Try putting the
wire in the foil and measure the resistance between the earth and centre
pins.

Leon Paul bodywires made in the last 15 years seem to have a corrosion
problem; they develop high resistance. It can easily be cured by
loosening and tightening the screws, but always returns. (Strangely, I
have one Leon Paul bodywire that's survived from when I learned, 30
years ago, and it doesn't have this problem.) Some France Lames and
Uhlmann wires have pins that are in several pieces, and resistance can
develop between them.

Always try and put a small amount of tension on the wire when you're
testing, too, and move it around: you could have a wire that's about to
break.

--
Tim S.

In article <3e17b24a.1394979@news.erols.com>, Mark C. Orton
<ortonmc+rsf@erols.com> writes
>On Sun, 05 Jan 2003 00:24:44 GMT, "Bill Powers" <nutziprs@pacbell.net>
>wrote:
>
>> Howdy everyone,
>> I'm sure someone here can help me (hopefully, because I'm at my wits end
>> dealing with this issue) so here goes. I have two foils that are acting
>> quite peculiarly - during club bouts and a couple of times at tournaments -
>> I get random off target lights when I hit my opponents lame. We did the
>> obvious checking for dead spots and body cord problems, and everything seems
>> ok with their equipment. At a tournament, the director ended up changing
>> the floor cable which worked for the rest of that bout. I've changed
>> weapons during a bout (both club and tournament) when this starts happening
>> but they are foils I'm not as fond of...yes, I know you shouldn't
>> *technically* have a favorite weapon but it's inevitable for me. I've
>> re-wired the blades twice, and everything checks out on the Ohms meter, to
>> no avail and I've checked the tips for dents in the barrel (none that I can
>> see) and dirt inside and have cleaned, cleaned, cleaned...but it's still
>> happening. I've found recently that when it happens, I can twist the tip
>> and that will work for a few touches. I should mention that I'm using
>> German tips as that may determine what course of action to take. Aside from
>> telling me to switch back to French tips (parish the thought), could anyone
>> give me some suggestions for a cure? Thanks for the help.
>
>A couple of possibilities come to mind:
>
>1. The tip may be starting to come apart, resulting in a poor
>connection between the tip and the spring. If this is the case, you
>may see a high resistance between the tip and the bodycord B line. If
>the resistance is near the borderline of the machine's sensitivity,
>the symptom may appear or disappear depending on which machine, reels,
>and floor cables are in use. Replacing the tip should fix this.
>
>2. A few months ago, I got a few German foil wires that had solder
>flux (or some such crud) on the contacts. I had to scrape it off
>before they'd conduct at all. This is much easier to do before the
>wires are installed in the blade, but you might be able to get at it
>with a long needle.
>
>-Mark-

If the problem survives a complete rewire (and replacement of the tip,
presumably), it's worth investigating other parts of the circuit.

Have you checked the bodywire you are using? If it has high resistance
then you can get some very strange effects. It should be under 1 ohm,
although you rarely see problems unless it's over about 10 ohm. (The
same is true of spools and ground-leads, obviously). Try putting the
wire in the foil and measure the resistance between the earth and centre
pins.

Leon Paul bodywires made in the last 15 years seem to have a corrosion
problem; they develop high resistance. It can easily be cured by
loosening and tightening the screws, but always returns. (Strangely, I
have one Leon Paul bodywire that's survived from when I learned, 30
years ago, and it doesn't have this problem.) Some France Lames and
Uhlmann wires have pins that are in several pieces, and resistance can
develop between them.

Always try and put a small amount of tension on the wire when you're
testing, too, and move it around: you could have a wire that's about to
break.

--
Tim S.

Two questions for you:

1) how long ago did you buy your german points?

2) Have you checked the contact cup?

JP

"Bill Powers" <nutziprs@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:gXKR9.6264$n25.145597701@newssvr15.news.prodi gy.com...
> Howdy everyone,
> I'm sure someone here can help me (hopefully, because I'm at my wits end
> dealing with this issue) so here goes. I have two foils that are acting
> quite peculiarly - during club bouts and a couple of times at
tournaments -
> I get random off target lights when I hit my opponents lame. We did the
> obvious checking for dead spots and body cord problems, and everything
seems
> ok with their equipment. At a tournament, the director ended up changing
> the floor cable which worked for the rest of that bout. I've changed
> weapons during a bout (both club and tournament) when this starts
happening
> but they are foils I'm not as fond of...yes, I know you shouldn't
> *technically* have a favorite weapon but it's inevitable for me. I've
> re-wired the blades twice, and everything checks out on the Ohms meter, to
> no avail and I've checked the tips for dents in the barrel (none that I
can
> see) and dirt inside and have cleaned, cleaned, cleaned...but it's still
> happening. I've found recently that when it happens, I can twist the tip
> and that will work for a few touches. I should mention that I'm using
> German tips as that may determine what course of action to take. Aside
from
> telling me to switch back to French tips (parish the thought), could
anyone
> give me some suggestions for a cure? Thanks for the help.
>
> bill...
> --)-------------
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -----------------------
> "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss
on
> your computer."
>
>
>
>
>

Two questions for you:

1) how long ago did you buy your german points?

2) Have you checked the contact cup?

JP

"Bill Powers" <nutziprs@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:gXKR9.6264$n25.145597701@newssvr15.news.prodi gy.com...
> Howdy everyone,
> I'm sure someone here can help me (hopefully, because I'm at my wits end
> dealing with this issue) so here goes. I have two foils that are acting
> quite peculiarly - during club bouts and a couple of times at
tournaments -
> I get random off target lights when I hit my opponents lame. We did the
> obvious checking for dead spots and body cord problems, and everything
seems
> ok with their equipment. At a tournament, the director ended up changing
> the floor cable which worked for the rest of that bout. I've changed
> weapons during a bout (both club and tournament) when this starts
happening
> but they are foils I'm not as fond of...yes, I know you shouldn't
> *technically* have a favorite weapon but it's inevitable for me. I've
> re-wired the blades twice, and everything checks out on the Ohms meter, to
> no avail and I've checked the tips for dents in the barrel (none that I
can
> see) and dirt inside and have cleaned, cleaned, cleaned...but it's still
> happening. I've found recently that when it happens, I can twist the tip
> and that will work for a few touches. I should mention that I'm using
> German tips as that may determine what course of action to take. Aside
from
> telling me to switch back to French tips (parish the thought), could
anyone
> give me some suggestions for a cure? Thanks for the help.
>
> bill...
> --)-------------
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -----------------------
> "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss
on
> your computer."
>
>
>
>
>

Hey Mark, how are you? Thanks everyone for the info. Unfortunately,
everything checks out ok when hooked up to an ohms meter (body cords et al)
so I've taken the main tip ensemble that was giving me the most problems and
have thrown it away. The other one I cleaned in alcohol and scrapped the
contacts. Last night at practice the one weapon worked fine...the only off
target lights were legitimate lame dead spots or my terrible point control
(the other one with different tip/barrel was still drying, so I won't know
until tomorrow night). But to answer JP's question about age - they're
about 3 years old however I took, nearly, a two year break from fencing so
they haven't seen much action until the last 6 months or so. Maybe they're
suffering from atrophy? Anyhow, thanks again. Everything seems to be
working well now.


bill...
--)-------------





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on
your computer."

Hey Mark, how are you? Thanks everyone for the info. Unfortunately,
everything checks out ok when hooked up to an ohms meter (body cords et al)
so I've taken the main tip ensemble that was giving me the most problems and
have thrown it away. The other one I cleaned in alcohol and scrapped the
contacts. Last night at practice the one weapon worked fine...the only off
target lights were legitimate lame dead spots or my terrible point control
(the other one with different tip/barrel was still drying, so I won't know
until tomorrow night). But to answer JP's question about age - they're
about 3 years old however I took, nearly, a two year break from fencing so
they haven't seen much action until the last 6 months or so. Maybe they're
suffering from atrophy? Anyhow, thanks again. Everything seems to be
working well now.


bill...
--)-------------





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on
your computer."