Re: Setting blades

In article <4vq21vkb3smbs5d78a65knph6n67ffbcrr@4ax.com>,
wreckferret <jerpxsreerg@hxez.arg> wrote:

> Anyone care to share their preferred methods?
>
> I'm looking at replacing my venerable epée blades soonest as they're
> losing their elasticity and I don't have the luxury of a club armourer
> to do this for me anymore.
>
> I'm going down the mail-order route as I live so far from any outlets,
> so getting it all done at a shop ain't gonna happen, unfortunately...

Not 5 minutes ago, I finished wiring a new epee blade, and mounting it
in a weapon. The learning curve is pretty steep - you will make a few
mistakes at first, so don't get frustrated. But after you wire a few up,
you'll learn certain "tricks." After that, it is a little time
consuming, but fairly easy and nice to be able to "do it yourself."

I recommend Rudy Volkman's book on electric fencing equipment. It has
all the wiring diagrams, and is an excellent resource.

Of the "tricks" I had to learn:

1. Getting a rope/cap combination of the right length took some time. I
have a nylon rope holding two PVC caps that worls OK. Be careful to know
how your caps work - I had a blade slip out of the cap as I was gluing
it once. This can be something of a disaster, since superglue spattering
in the eyes is *bad*. I wear glasses for vision, but if you don't, I
*strongly* recommend safety goggles when working with super glue.
Remember you can run more glue in if the wires aren't coating, but
removing glue is a pain. Run a bead along the wires using as little glue
as possible.

2. Our club armorer advocates buying wire spools and soldering the cups
for foils. I prefer to spend a few extra pennies and buy Uhlmann blue
wires ready made.

3. Be sure to cut the tang to length and bend it "in and down" to your
liking *before* you wire the blade.

4. There is a chemical that can be obtained at wood working stores that
will "quick set" superglue. Our club armoror has some, and it makes
things go faster. But if you're not in a rush, it is unnecessary.

5. Invest in a piece of *metal* pipe of about 42" long with caps for
each end to use as a Acetone bath. Cap one end *tightly* (you'll need
pipe wrenches) fill with acetone, and drop the new blade in to soak. It
will remove old glue, grease etc. pretty well. You'll still have to
scrape, but it is a good start. (it is left as an exercise for the
student why you need a *metal* pipe, not PVC, for this tool.) :-)
Be sure the balde is *very clean* before you try to glue it up.

6. I'm sort of assuming you can assemble the weapon, but I'll freely
confess to destroying a wire when I ran the new wires between the bell
and the socket tang (the wires go through the socket tang opening.)
Ooops. IOW, don't take it for granted the weapon assembly is intuitive.
Also, be sure you know how to set a "right handed bell." Again, left to
the student to know how it is I mention this. :-(

7. It is worth testing and shimming the point before you assemble the
weapon. Saves time when you make a mistake. :-)

8. Use blue lock-tite on the barrel to blade screws, but be careful to
keep as much of it off the wires as you can.

9. While not strictly your question, I like having common parts on all
my weapons. I have converted to all german points (I seem to be
something of a walking ad for Uhlmann - not anything I did consciously,
but it just turned out I have that ubiquitous blue U all over me) and
use outside hex pommel nuts. I tried the screwless points, but didn't
have much luck.

Hope this helps. -RAG

Richard Glover wrote:
> Remember you can run more glue in if the wires aren't coating, but
> removing glue is a pain. Run a bead along the wires using as little glue
> as possible.

Good tips, but I'd disagree with the above part, at least for foils. My
technique is to put a generous amount of a fairly viscous glue over the
wire. After it's dry, removing the excess is very easy: just run a knife
down the foil blade, neatly cutting off the extra glue. Of course, it's
important that the wire not be sticking up out of the goove. :-)


--
John Twernbold
jtwernbold (at) yahoo.com

"wreckferret" <jerpxsreerg@hxez.arg> wrote in message
news:gjs71v8s125291bviv4p418n5emqlbgqch@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:12:02 GMT, Richard Glover
> <rglover@DELETETHIS.lunarpoodle.com> held forth:
>
> >3. Be sure to cut the tang to length and bend it "in and down" to
your
> >liking *before* you wire the blade.
>
> Thanks for the essay, but it was this bit I was interested in. One
> word: how?
>
> >Hope this helps. -RAG
>
> A little more on the above would be very helpful, thanks.

It's easiest if you have a heavy-duty bench-mounted vise. Then you
can put the tang in the vise, "top" upward, so that the whole tang is
gripped in the vise's jaws. Pull the blade toward you to create the
"in" set. Then loosen the vise and turn the blade 90 degrees so that
the top is away from you, and tighten the jaws again. Pull the blade
toward you again to establish the "down" set.

If you don't have a bench vise, you can use a good, high-grade wrench
of the sort that has a hole in the handle for hanging it on a
pegboard. It's the hole in the handle you're interested in, not the
"business end" of the wrench. You can put the tang through that hole
and position the wrench so that by squeezing the wrench and blade
together you apply force at exactly the juncture of tang and blade,
thus bending it precisely while leaving both blade and tang straight.

Be warned that while these techniques work on most blades, I have seen
the occasional blade that was nearly impossible to bend at the tang by
any means at my command. In such cases, people have recommended
fixing the blade itself in a heavy vise or other immovable position
that leaves the tang free, and using a length of pipe to get enough
leverage on the tang to bend it. Others have suggested using a torch
to weaken the temper of the tang where you want to bend it. A variety
of other methods have also been recommended, as you'll see if you use
Google Groups to search the archives of this newsgroup for "set blade
tang" or some such keywords. I have no opinion regarding these
methods.

Also be warned that it isn't unknown for a poorly forged blade to snap
at the tang while you are trying to set it. That's only happened to
me once, but it was last week so I'm sensitive to the possibility. If
that happens, it represents a defective blade IMO.

The exact degree of "set" is a matter of personal preference. If you
make a lot of beat attacks, you probably want less set. If your game
focuses on deceives and derobements, you may be happier with more.
And if you're right-handed, it never hurts to have one blade with a
steep set in your bag, just for hitting lefties on the flank.

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

"wreckferret" <jerpxsreerg@hxez.arg> wrote in message
news:m8481vs4se5cq5r62nfi8pm96h0okc1at3@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 03:29:17 -0500, "Dirk Goldgar"
> <dgoldgar@NOalumni.SPAMprinceton.edu> held forth:
>
> >It's easiest if you have a heavy-duty bench-mounted vise. Then you
> >can put the tang in the vise, "top" upward, so that the whole tang is
> >gripped in the vise's jaws. Pull the blade toward you to create the
> >"in" set. Then loosen the vise and turn the blade 90 degrees so that
> >the top is away from you, and tighten the jaws again. Pull the blade
> >toward you again to establish the "down" set.

I normally clamp the blade with the clamp going right to the shoulder. Then
I use a 10 inch long half inch (3/8 inch might even be better - it has to
fit over the tang. Too big and the angles get a bit off because of slop
inside the pipe) galvanized nipple (about a buck at the hardware store) over
the tang, and then in bend it in the right direction (rather than bend it
down then sideways as Dirk suggested). The pipe needs to go almost all the
way on the tang to the shoulder, and then bend carefully in increments - I
also have only broken one tang, but it is a pain when you do. You want the
tang to bend a short distance from the shoulder I think, to leave room for
the bell guard, and in any case, it is difficult to get the start of the
bend right at the shoulder, but you do not want it far from the shoulder or
the grip gets hung up on the bend.

I also have found it necessary to angle the guard end of the grip. This
came home to roost once when a blade I was building for someone else had a
left handed angle after I tightened the grip. The grip end was angled the
wrong direction, and tightening it was enough to bend the tang the wrong
direction.

In article <av20ge$124$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>, "Peter Harrison"
<pbharriso@hotmail.com> writes:

>
>I normally clamp the blade with the clamp going right to the shoulder. Then
>I use a 10 inch long half inch (3/8 inch might even be better - it has to
>fit over the tang. Too big and the angles get a bit off because of slop
>inside the pipe) galvanized nipple (about a buck at the hardware store) over
>the tang, and then in bend it in the right direction (rather than bend it
>down then sideways as Dirk suggested). The pipe needs to go almost all the
>way on the tang to the shoulder, and then bend carefully in increments - I
>also have only broken one tang, but it is a pain when you do. You want the
>tang to bend a short distance from the shoulder I think, to leave room for
>the bell guard, and in any case, it is difficult to get the start of the
>bend right at the shoulder, but you do not want it far from the shoulder or
>the grip gets hung up on the bend.
>

Slight warning on this recommendation and big warning on some other variations.
Also a warning when you are cutting short a tang with a hacksaw and get too
lazy to cut all the way through.

YOU DON'T WANT TO BEND THE END OF THE TANG IN A CURVE. You then can't tighten a
pommel over it and straghtening it again is a *****.

I personally like to use the vise technique. But I use a pipe wrench (they come
in sizes up to 30 inches long). Usually 8-10 inch wrenches are good. The
advantage of the pipe wrench is that the mouth is at almost exactly right
angles to the handle. Also you can adjust to different sizes for tangs and Epee
blades. I, too, get scared of some of these blades that don't bend right away.
As an armorer, I feel challenged to get it done, but sooner or later I am going
to break someone's new FIE blade. I have contemplated charging a dollar for
breakage insurance. I will let you know if I have to change that rate.

I also recommend leaving a quarter inch of tang out of the vise. That provides
a short length to average the bend over.

Bill Hall

>>3. Be sure to cut the tang to length and bend it "in and down" to your
>>liking *before* you wire the blade.
>
>Thanks for the essay, but it was this bit I was interested in. One
>word: how?

You can cut the tang with a pair of bolt cutters. Then you just have to fix the
threads slightly with a grinder to round out the cut part and rethread the
first 2 threads or so with the appropriate sized die.

On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 08:05:47 +0000 (UTC), wreckferret
<jerpxsreerg@hxez.arg> wrote:


>>3. Be sure to cut the tang to length and bend it "in and down" to your
>>liking *before* you wire the blade.
>
>Thanks for the essay, but it was this bit I was interested in. One
>word: how?

I like using sewer grates. Just be sure to hold on tight.