Well, I have no clue...

So, I'm doing what I think I need to do, and seeking out
more information from those who are knowledgeable...

Thanks for your patience.

I am in my mid thirties, in reasonably good shape, fairly
athletic, and I have been introduced to the sport as
being a potential hobby/athletic outlet. I know little
about the sport, other than what a reasonably intelligent
person can find out from basic internet research. I have
decided that if I do take up the sport, it will most
likely be in epee.

I've seen many people on here with great attitudes toward
new people, many who love the sport, some who are rude as
hell, and a few I wouldn't stay in the same room with. This
is usenet, I know. I have lurked, and I have read through
past posts on Google for information. So.

Here is what I'd like to get a discussion started on, if
I may:

Given that I am totally new to this, what suggestions and
reccomendations do the more experienced fencers have for
someone just starting, in terms of equipment, exercise,
athletic ability, and practice-discipline? I do not
intend to become a match-competitive fencer, nor do I
have illusions that I could be Olympic quality some day.

What would you do differently at the beginning, if you
were to want to become a *recreational* fencer? What would
you do at the start, knowing what you know now?

I have reservations about succeeding at this endeavor,
mostly because I am not certain I have the reflexes or
athletic ability to manage it. As far as my background
goes, I play golf (9 handicap, and I walk) I have played
football both at the high school and collegiate level,
(but never good enough to be a starter) I have never
played baseball, mostly because I have a fear of being
hit by a thrown or hit ball) I swim, waterski, and hike.
I am left-handed, and I have read that left-handedness
can be an advantage, but I am not a physically-gifted
person. I could never be what is considered a "natural"
athlete. I've had to work my behind off just to be
considered an average player at most sports. I like the
grace, strength, and precision of this sport, from what
I have been able to see on televised events, and I am
just flat-out intrigued.

There is a local club, and it has some very high-quality
people running it, but I have not worked up the courage
to go to their facility, for fear of being asked to jump
right in, and thereby be humiliated. I want to take it
very slowly, but I think I can learn to do this.

So, again, I ask: What would you do differently, at the
beginning, knowing what you know now? What would you
reccomend for beginners to do, and what types of things
do I need to look out for? What sort of equipment should
I consider, on a budget-level, keeping in mind that I may
not be successful, and wouldn't want to spend huge bucks
for something that I may not be good at? What are the good
and bad aspects of the sport? Why would you encourage me
to take this up?

I would appreciate a good discussion on this, as I am
wanting to find out what I can, before I take any steps.

Thank you all very much! This is a good newsgroup.


--

In article <ded0a9c1376ad3db967d76ac889a2423@ecn.org>, Anonymous
<cripto@ecn.org> writes:

>Why would you encourage me
>to take this up?
>

IMHO about 10% of the people who take up fenceing, then MUST fence. It is
addictive to some few of us.

Basic advice. If at all possible do it twice a week, on non-consecutive nights.
Monday, Thursday would be ideal. You will hurt for a while, it happens to
everyone but you will get over it.

In this I may differ from some others. If you can, start in Epee. Some will say
you have to start in Foil, but others disagree. You can start in Epee and try
Foil later. Or you can just save time and start in Sabre, my weapon.

If money is less of a problem for you, start with lessons from a coach instead
of the group lessons. You will learn faster.

Don't be scared of jumping in, you are going to lose a lot of touches. When I
fence the kids, I get creamed. I was foolish enough to enter the last Division
I Sabre North American Cup. I finished 98 out of 100. But, I had been 99th seed
before the competition. So I beat my seed. Besides, I knew the two guys who
finished behind me so I could feel good about finishing ahead of them.

Remember, a bad day of fencing is still a good day.

I am a Veteran fencer (over 40) now. Marvin Fine, from the Albany area, has
twice won WORLD over 60 Sabre Silver medals and he has fenced about eight
years. He was fortunate to have Vladimir Nazlymov, several times World Team
Gold Medalist, for his first coach. So you can go as far as you want to work
for.

Bill Hall

Anonymous wrote:

> So, again, I ask: What would you do differently, at the
> beginning, knowing what you know now? What would you
> reccomend for beginners to do, and what types of things
> do I need to look out for? What sort of equipment should
> I consider, on a budget-level, keeping in mind that I may
> not be successful, and wouldn't want to spend huge bucks
> for something that I may not be good at? What are the good
> and bad aspects of the sport? Why would you encourage me
> to take this up?

Fencing, when it comes down to the nutshell is basically very easy --
you can learn everything that you need to know in the first lesson --
HOWEVER -- the hard part comes in that you need to practice everything
correctly in lessons, in order for that to transpire in competitions!!
Perfect practice makes perfect!!! There is no rocket science to this --
you get out of it what you put into it.

Fencing is a wonderful life-sport -- there are only a few sports in
which you can participate in your elder years (only golf comes to my
mind...).

As far as equipment, you can purchase the beginners set at any supplier,
if you want to just try it out and recreationally fence as dry.
However, if you intend to compete, you will need to also purchase the
electrical set. And, if you intend to compete internationally, that is
another level of standard that you need to buy (the uniform and blade
requirements are different)-- so the choice is yours -- but when you
make the decision of buying equipment, keep in mind that if you progress
to the next level, you will have to buy the appropriate equipment. Of
course, it will be most economical if you purchase your first set at the
level on which you plan to compete; however, you will find that there is
a natural progression in upgrading your equipment -- i.e starting with
the beginner set, after 6 months -1 year, adding the electrical set;
after that, if you choose to compete Internationally, upgrading your
uniform and blades.

As far as to you progress in the sport, I think that buying the beginner
set is OK -- I think that by the time that you are able to compete
locally, you can then buy the electrical set, and if you quit before
then, nothing is lost. After some time of competing locally, you will
be ready to compete nationally, and your equipment is still good.

The benefit of having an International level uniform is the better
protection that they offer. If cost is a factor, and you don't compete
Internationally, this is not a necessity. One of the benefits of the
maraging blades required in International competition is their
durability -- I have 2 blades from 1995 that are still good.

Fencerbill wrote:

> In article <ded0a9c1376ad3db967d76ac889a2423@ecn.org>, Anonymous
> <cripto@ecn.org> writes:
>
> >Why would you encourage me
> >to take this up?
> >
>
> IMHO about 10% of the people who take up fenceing, then MUST fence. It is
> addictive to some few of us.

Oh, and I thought your caffeine addiction was your only one <g>

> Basic advice. If at all possible do it twice a week, on non-consecutive nights.
> Monday, Thursday would be ideal. You will hurt for a while, it happens to
> everyone but you will get over it.

Works for me!! Sounds like my schedule!!

> In this I may differ from some others. If you can, start in Epee. Some will say
> you have to start in Foil, but others disagree. You can start in Epee and try
> Foil later. Or you can just save time and start in Sabre, my weapon.

I'm in the very conservative start-in-foil-camp (GASP! !! I'm a conservative --
who would have thunk it!!! LOL!!!!). Even my kids can recite my rhetoric -- at
least 2 years in foil before you move to another weapon, and then you can only
make the move if you understand distance and time.

> If money is less of a problem for you, start with lessons from a coach instead
> of the group lessons. You will learn faster.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

> Don't be scared of jumping in, you are going to lose a lot of touches. When I
> fence the kids, I get creamed. I was foolish enough to enter the last Division
> I Sabre North American Cup. I finished 98 out of 100. But, I had been 99th seed
> before the competition. So I beat my seed. Besides, I knew the two guys who
> finished behind me so I could feel good about finishing ahead of them.

That's the way a competition goes. You learn by doing -- don't be afraid. What
Bill fails to share, is that he is the 2002 World Veterans Champion in Sabre!!!!!

> Remember, a bad day of fencing is still a good day.

ABSOLUTELY!!!! I get my best days off from work, with much understanding, because
I tell them that I am going to a competition!! Best one ever was when I went to
Holland and Germany for a couple of weeks. Fencing is so obscure in this country,
and impressive to corporations that is is always a good reason for time off from
work.

> I am a Veteran fencer (over 40) now. Marvin Fine, from the Albany area, has
> twice won WORLD over 60 Sabre Silver medals and he has fenced about eight
> years. He was fortunate to have Vladimir Nazlymov, several times World Team
> Gold Medalist, for his first coach. So you can go as far as you want to work
> for.

ABSOLUTELY!! Fencing is all about how much work you put into it -- and with the
right coach, you are more efficient.

In rec.sport.fencing on Sun, 29 Dec 2002 07:33:33 GMT
Carol <ca.donohue@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>I'm in the very conservative start-in-foil-camp (GASP! !! I'm a conservative --
>who would have thunk it!!! LOL!!!!). Even my kids can recite my rhetoric -- at
>least 2 years in foil before you move to another weapon, and then you can only
>make the move if you understand distance and time.
>

So... what do you think it is about foil that teaches you those in a
way that epee or sabre can't?

(I have my own ideas, but I'd like to hear other people's)

Zebee

Carol <ca.donohue@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<3E0E9D54.F007D78A@verizon.net>...
> Anonymous wrote:
>
> > So, again, I ask: What would you do differently, at the
> > beginning, knowing what you know now? What would you
> > reccomend for beginners to do, and what types of things
> > do I need to look out for? What sort of equipment should
> > I consider, on a budget-level, keeping in mind that I may
> > not be successful, and wouldn't want to spend huge bucks
> > for something that I may not be good at? What are the good
> > and bad aspects of the sport? Why would you encourage me
> > to take this up?
>
> Fencing, when it comes down to the nutshell is basically very easy --
> you can learn everything that you need to know in the first lesson --
> HOWEVER -- the hard part comes in that you need to practice everything
> correctly in lessons, in order for that to transpire in competitions!!
> Perfect practice makes perfect!!! There is no rocket science to this --
> you get out of it what you put into it.
>
> Fencing is a wonderful life-sport -- there are only a few sports in
> which you can participate in your elder years (only golf comes to my
> mind...).
>
> As far as equipment, you can purchase the beginners set at any supplier,
> if you want to just try it out and recreationally fence as dry.
> However, if you intend to compete, you will need to also purchase the
> electrical set. And, if you intend to compete internationally, that is
> another level of standard that you need to buy (the uniform and blade
> requirements are different)-- so the choice is yours -- but when you
> make the decision of buying equipment, keep in mind that if you progress
> to the next level, you will have to buy the appropriate equipment. Of
> course, it will be most economical if you purchase your first set at the
> level on which you plan to compete; however, you will find that there is
> a natural progression in upgrading your equipment -- i.e starting with
> the beginner set, after 6 months -1 year, adding the electrical set;
> after that, if you choose to compete Internationally, upgrading your
> uniform and blades.
>
> As far as to you progress in the sport, I think that buying the beginner
> set is OK -- I think that by the time that you are able to compete
> locally, you can then buy the electrical set, and if you quit before
> then, nothing is lost. After some time of competing locally, you will
> be ready to compete nationally, and your equipment is still good.
>
> The benefit of having an International level uniform is the better
> protection that they offer. If cost is a factor, and you don't compete
> Internationally, this is not a necessity. One of the benefits of the
> maraging blades required in International competition is their
> durability -- I have 2 blades from 1995 that are still good.

Oh hell yes get invole it's a life time sport I 've know person in
their 70 starting fencing. As a beginnewr you get your butt kicked at
first but set of goal of how many touches can I get my first tournay.
My wife has been fencing for 35 years she one of the top rated vet
women fencer 8 of my kids fences. One fences for West Point military
Acd. OR course some pepole will said that all we do if fences.

Tim Loomis

Carol wrote:

>As far as equipment, you can purchase the beginners set at any supplier,
>if you want to just try it out and recreationally fence as dry.
>
>
I would recommend that you ask the club you're going to for advice on
your fencing kit. All clubs must conform to the same basic safety rules,
but you'll find some clubs get a majority of their equipment from a
single supplier - makes borrowing much easier.

As for weapon, there are many opinions. I personally like Foil, but I
also like to work for my touches.

Welcome to the sport.

--
Amy and Joseph Kormann

Anonymous <cripto@ecn.org> wrote in <ded0a9c1376ad3db967d76ac889a2423
@ecn.org>:

>I have reservations about succeeding at this endeavor,
>mostly because I am not certain I have the reflexes or
>athletic ability to manage it. As far as my background
>goes, I play golf (9 handicap, and I walk) I have played
>football both at the high school and collegiate level,
>(but never good enough to be a starter) I have never
>played baseball, mostly because I have a fear of being
>hit by a thrown or hit ball) I swim, waterski, and hike.
>I am left-handed, and I have read that left-handedness
>can be an advantage, but I am not a physically-gifted
>person. I could never be what is considered a "natural"
>athlete. I've had to work my behind off just to be
>considered an average player at most sports. I like the
>grace, strength, and precision of this sport, from what
>I have been able to see on televised events, and I am
>just flat-out intrigued.

If you are intrigued, then do it! Don't worry about the athletic ability
- that can *develop* from fencing, rather than being a prerequisite.

When I started fencing, I was essentially a couch potato, having never
willingly done anything more athletic than walking around in my life. (I
wasn't overweight; just not fit). Furthermore, I had bad knees. And lousy
reflexes. Just the same, I got hooked, and thanks in large part to great
coaches who encouraged my *love* of the sport, I always felt motivated to
try to win and do better.

Ten years later... I still have bad knees (though they're better now,
because I know how to take care of them better and I'm more motivated to
do so). I still have lousy reflexes in real life, but in fencing,
practice has improved them somewhat. And I have a great time every time I
fence, in practice or in a competition. I am *not* a gifted fencer; what
I've learned has not come easily. But what really keeps me interested in
fencing is that there's always something new to learn and some further
improvement that I can make in myself. I enjoy competing, so for me the
challenge of high-level competitions like Nationals is something I enjoy
and aim for every year, but many people don't compete at all or compete
only locally, and have an equally great time.

My random assortment of tips for new fencers:

1. Buy a beginner's starter set from one company - saves time and
trouble. I recommend Blue Gauntlet but other companies are good as well.

2. Get a front-close jacket, not a back-zip one. It costs slightly more
but oh boy, having the zipper in the back is a $%&^$*## nuisance.

3. Get a slightly padded glove. The starter kit may come with a padded
one already, but if not, a slight upgrade will make your hand happier.

4. Start in foil, but try out the other two weapons soon, and don't be
afraid to switch if one of them is REALLY REALLY REALLY cool and you like
it way better. I switched to sabre after about three months of foil,
somewhat over the objections of my coaches (but they stopped objecting
when they saw how much better I liked it); amusingly, my husband did the
same thing (foil --> sabre after a couple of months) but since I'm his
coach, I thought it was fine He likes it HUGELY and would have been
unhappy in foil.

5. Do get an underarm protector, even if it's not part of the starter
set, and get a nice cotton one (not nylon).

6. Don't bother with FIE stuff - it's necessary for international
competitions only, and while it does offer a higher level of protection,
in my opinion it's totally unnecessary for fencers who don't intend to
fence at international events. *I* don't even have a single piece of FIE
gear.

7. Knickers are not essential. Sweatpants work just fine for practice.

8, 9, and 10. (Just so it's a nice even list). Have fun! :-)

--Holly

If you do decide to start with group lessons for whatever reason, you may want
to try and find a group that is taught to your age group rather than one with
mixed adults and children. many people find it easier to learn with peers
rather than large gaps in age ranges. If you want to fence as a mostly social
activity or are a very outgoing person, you may want to take group lessons
instead of or in addition to private ones. some people learn better with
others. it comes down to personal learning style.
~alison

"Anonymous" <cripto@ecn.org> wrote in message
news:ded0a9c1376ad3db967d76ac889a2423@ecn.org...
> So, I'm doing what I think I need to do, and seeking out
> more information from those who are knowledgeable...
>
> Thanks for your patience.
>
> I am in my mid thirties, in reasonably good shape, fairly
> athletic, and I have been introduced to the sport as
> being a potential hobby/athletic outlet. I know little
> about the sport, other than what a reasonably intelligent
> person can find out from basic internet research. I have
> decided that if I do take up the sport, it will most
> likely be in epee.

That's not unreasonable for a late starter, but it's awfully early to
make up your mind. What weapon you most enjoy fencing has more to do
with your personality than anything else, and you may find out things
about yourself that you didn't know. And, of course, there's no rule
that says you have to fence just one weapon. Especially for a
recreational fencer, the more weapons you fence, the more opportunites
you have to fence.

I believe that most people should start with foil unless they are
absolutely positive that they want to fence some other weapon and only
that weapon. That's because I think it's easier to make the
transition from foil to epee or sabre than from either of the other
weapons to another. But notwithstanding any debate over this
question, you may find that your choices are limited by the fencing
schools that are available to you. Our school, for example, starts
all beginners with foil. After their 20-week beginner course, then
they may switch to another weapon, though we encourage them to stick
with foil for a while. However, other schools may well have entirely
different policies, so that's something you should find out before you
make a decision -- if you have any decision to make, there not being a
lot of salles to choose from in most areas.

Speaking of debate, a couple of people have posted in reponse saying
you should try to get private lessons rather than a class. I
disagree. I don't think a rank beginner is going to benefit as much
from private lessons as from a small group class. In classes, you can
learn to execute your techniques against a person of relatively equal
skill, and competitive drills can show you what you need to improve.
What's more, this is another area where your choices may be limited,
since most salles I'm familiar with don't offer private lessons to
beginners. Things may be different elsewhere, but private lessons
aren't usually cost-effective for a salle unless they're priced to the
sky. I suppose it could be different if the salle or instructor's
overhead costs are very low. But you shouldn't feel wronged if, as a
beginner, you can't get private lessons.

> Given that I am totally new to this, what suggestions and
> reccomendations do the more experienced fencers have for
> someone just starting, in terms of equipment, exercise,
> athletic ability, and practice-discipline? I do not
> intend to become a match-competitive fencer, nor do I
> have illusions that I could be Olympic quality some day.

Well, all fencing is competitive, so the only question is who are you
competing with? Novices compete with novices, and feel just as
downcast when they lose and elated when they win as champions do when
they compete with champions. But win or lose, it's a hell of a lot of
fun. I'll tell you a secret -- it's nice to be a relative novice;
then there are more people you can lose to and still feel pleased with
your performance.

> What would you do differently at the beginning, if you
> were to want to become a *recreational* fencer? What would
> you do at the start, knowing what you know now?

I don't think I'd do anything differently. If you enjoy fencing,
you'll fence and you'll practice. At some point you may find you want
to go out and do some of the local competitions, purely for fun and to
meet some new opponents. Maybe you'll be bitten by the competition
bug and start competing more and in a wider area, or maybe not. It's
no big deal.

> I have reservations about succeeding at this endeavor,
> mostly because I am not certain I have the reflexes or
> athletic ability to manage it.

I wouldn't worry about that. There are very few "naturals" in
fencing. Fencing will train your body up to do what is required of
it, and it's a sport in which tactics play as big a part as athletic
ability. So you can win against a more athletic opponent by being
sneakier. "Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill."
Granted, youth, skill, and treachery is a hard combination to beat,
but it's not all that common either.

> There is a local club, and it has some very high-quality
> people running it, but I have not worked up the courage
> to go to their facility, for fear of being asked to jump
> right in, and thereby be humiliated. I want to take it
> very slowly, but I think I can learn to do this.

Why not go to them, tell them you're interested, and express your
concerns? I don't know of any clubs that are interested in
humiliating beginners. If it's a professional school, you may be
assured they have a program for beginners.

> What sort of equipment should
> I consider, on a budget-level, keeping in mind that I may
> not be successful, and wouldn't want to spend huge bucks
> for something that I may not be good at?

It's quite likely that any school you go to will provide equipment for
beginners to use while they take classes. Ours provides all the
equipment for beginners' classes except a glove. So check with the
school in question about their beginner program.

At some point, if you decide to stay with fencing, you'll want to get
your own equipment. Most equipment vendors have "beginners sets" that
are quite inexpensive. If the school or club you're going to is also
an equipment dealer, talk to them about your needs. I usually don't
recommend people buy the cheapest equipment going, because it lasts a
long time. Better not to buy until you know you're going to stick
with it, and then buy good equipment.

> What are the good
> and bad aspects of the sport?

I could go on forever about the good aspects, so I'll just talk about
the bad aspects.

1. In terms of physical development, fencing is lopsided. You would
do well to cross-train. If fencing is your only sport, practice doing
your footwork with your off side forward, to balance things out. Who
knows, it may come in handy some day to be able to fence with the
opposite hand.

2. Fencing builds up your leg strength, but fencing alone doesn't do
much for your upper body. As part of a training regimen, you have to
do additional exercises for the upper body.

3. It's addictive.

> Why would you encourage me
> to take this up?

It's an incredible amount of fun!

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

>Who
>knows, it may come in handy some day to be able to fence with the
>opposite hand.

>Dirk Goldgar
>

It comes in very handy when trying to teach the members of your team how to
beat lefties at your next meet where half their team is lefty. I had to do that
today and had i never done my footwork "backwards" before, the bouting and
drilling would have been horrendous. (I must admit it is very fun though to
give lessons with a weapon in each hand)
~alison

In article <20021230124300.02142.00000165@mb-mu.aol.com>, alison1daland@aol.com
(Alison1daland) writes:

>(I must admit it is very fun though to
>give lessons with a weapon in each hand)

I watched Maitre Calvert do this with two (right handed and left handed)
fencers in San Jose while visiting one night and I was enormously impressed.

Bill Hall

Alison1daland wrote:

>It comes in very handy when trying to teach the members of your team how to
>beat lefties at your next meet where half their team is lefty. I had to do that
>today and had i never done my footwork "backwards" before, the bouting and
>drilling would have been horrendous. (I must admit it is very fun though to
>give lessons with a weapon in each hand)
>~alison
>
>
Find an SCA practice. Two-handed blade work is a common occurance. It's
fun too!

I was picking up 'blade transfer' at the last practice. Parry with your
main weapon, take the blade with your off-hand weapon and hit with your
now freed main weapon. If you do it right, you've also bound your
opponent so they cannot, without alot of difficulty, riposte.

--
Amy and Joseph Kormann

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

> So... what do you think it is about foil that teaches you those in a
> way that epee or sabre can't?

I see it as a progression from each weapon (foil->epee-> sabre) to pick up different
skills along the way . Each weapon focuses on a certain set of skills, which is why
you find coaches that are specialized in a particular weapon. Of course, you do
find fencing masters who teach all 3 weapons, and also some coaches who incorporate
some skills from the other weapons into their lessons.

If you start in epee, you miss out on learning right-of-way. It is hard to then
transition to either foil or sabre.

If you start in sabre, you won't (generally speaking) learn much about point work,
and won't have developed the dexterity of the hand for point actions.

In article <ded0a9c1376ad3db967d76ac889a2423@ecn.org>, Anonymous
<cripto@ecn.org> writes:

>Subject: Well, I have no clue...
>From: Anonymous <cripto@ecn.org>
>Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 05:14:38 +0100 (CET)
>
>So, I'm doing what I think I need to do, and seeking out
>more information from those who are knowledgeable...
>
>Thanks for your patience.

[SNIP]
>Given that I am totally new to this, what suggestions and
>reccomendations do the more experienced fencers have for
>someone just starting, in terms of equipment, exercise,
>athletic ability, and practice-discipline?

'Non,

There's been a good bit of advice posted, some of it should be helpful,
(I'll try not to repeat any) but first, let me say,
I think you could make a fine fencer:
If you have the patience and discipline and/or fine motor control to get down
to a 9 handicap,
you may well have what it takes to stick to it enough to learn the totally new
physical techniques of fencing.

Additionally, the analytical skills you have already demonstrated in describing
the NG environment should, ultimately, help you apply the techniques you learn,
and advance your skills more quickly.

That being said, fencing is STILL a skill intensive game, and it's usually a
little more personal than golf, so you still have a challenge in front of you.

> I do not intend to become a match-competitive fencer, nor do I
>have illusions that I could be Olympic quality some day.

That's a healthy attitude, but I imagine you have a competitive drive that will
motivate you, so don't sell yourself short, at least not right away!
Several people have claimed that fencing is addictive, and they must be right,
about themselves.
Personally, I could consider myself in that group, but what's really at issue
is (IMHO) that once you have developed some competence, the stimulation of
intense competition/interplay is the addictive feature.

Additionally,for me, the process of reaching a state a psychological
intensity, mental concentration, and physical exertion releives a lot of
stress:
If I miss practice for more than a week, or so, I can get pretty cranky.
Competitions sometimes seerve this purpose, also, at least, when I do well!

>What would you do differently at the beginning, if you
>were to want to become a *recreational* fencer? What would
>you do at the start, knowing what you know now?

Since I started a teenager, the biggest thing I would do differently would be
to take it a little more seriously, at the beginning, but I din't know any
better, so waht can you do? After 25 years, I can say that,since your physical
characteristics and abilities continue to change, fencing remains a challenge.

>I have reservations about succeeding at this endeavor,
>mostly because I am not certain I have the reflexes or
>athletic ability to manage it. As far as my background
>goes, I play golf (9 handicap, and I walk) I have played
>football both at the high school and collegiate level,
>(but never good enough to be a starter) I have never
>played baseball, mostly because I have a fear of being
>hit by a thrown or hit ball) I swim, waterski, and hike.
>I am left-handed, and I have read that left-handedness
>can be an advantage, but I am not a physically-gifted
>person. I could never be what is considered a "natural"
>athlete. I've had to work my behind off just to be
>considered an average player at most sports.

Relax! that probably describes about %80 of the people in fencing!
(for many of us) If we were good at something else, we'd be doing that!
The BEST thing about fencing is that you don't have to be the biggest,
strongest, tallest, fastest...to have fun at it, or even to be good at it!
It's more about control, timing, and eye-hand stuff: unlike other sports,
where people are trying to get away from, or past you, in fenccing they are
trying to get AT you, and you are always there!
And you don't even haev to be faster than them; just faster than they think you
are!

> I like the grace, strength, and precision of this sport, from what
>I have been able to see on televised events, and I am
>just flat-out intrigued.

As a confirmed, terminal klutz, I can say that while I can still trip over my
own feet, fencing has definitely improved my abilities in this area.

>There is a local club, and it has some very high-quality
>people running it, but I have not worked up the courage
>to go to their facility, for fear of being asked to jump
>right in, and thereby be humiliated. I want to take it
>very slowly, but I think I can learn to do this.

Wherever you go for instruction, understand that the instructors MAY seem a
little jaded, as about %70-80 of people who take a class leave it at that, and
the number of people who continue on for more than a year is more like 2-10%,
though this varies a good bit. Nevertheless, they will, most likely, be glad to
have you, it's just that you might have to demonstrate some extended resolve
to really perservere, in order to get their attention.

Well, as for the take it slow part; that sounds partly right: you will be
asking your body to do totally new stuff that it really wasn't developed
specifically to do, plus, though it sounds like you are in good enough shape,
and have significant experience acquiring physical skills, you are already past
your prime learning years, and that will be a little bit of a challenge. Don't
push your body too much/too fast, you WILL have muscle aches as they get
strengthened in a new way, but if you really overdo it, you will only undercut
your learning and enjoyment; don't try to keep up with the kids, if it's too
much, and resist an instructor's overzealous motivation if it's too much for
the moment; repetition and frequency are key to learning, so if you don't make
it back but once a week, you'll not make much progress.

>So, again, I ask: What would you do differently, at the
>beginning, knowing what you know now? What would you
>reccomend for beginners to do, and what types of things
>do I need to look out for? What sort of equipment should
>I consider, on a budget-level, keeping in mind that I may
>not be successful, and wouldn't want to spend huge bucks
>for something that I may not be good at? What are the good
>and bad aspects of the sport? Why would you encourage me
>to take this up?

As stated, fencing, either recreationally, or competitively, is something you
can do all your life:if you want, there are age group competitions, as well as
restricted competitions. It's decent-enough cardio-vascular exercise, if you
push yourself, though I really wouldn't claim it constitues a complete regimen
(sp?).
HOWEVER, (and remember this) it's a really fun game to be played, and you can
meet lots of interesting people.

As for starting out, fencing is really not a remarkably expensive sport, for
local recreation & competition.
(Of course, high level coaching and national/international competition, it's
another story).
If you are really going to make an earnest attempt at the sport,
(I assume that the club you mention will probably provide some equipment for
beginner class, though this in not always the case)
You will want:
some LONG pants that allow you to move, though they really shouldn't be too
baggy.
Some sort of court shoe, with some cushion, that DOESN'T have square corners
around the edge.
I would feel free to by a glove, (washables types sell for less than $20.00 -
old smelly gloves are disgusting enough when they are yours!)
and an underarm protector ($15-25) Worn under a jacket, this will also protect
your chest a little.

If the club doesn't provide, there are starter sets that are decent enough
deals: DO NOT buy a 'half-jacket', and try to upgrade to front-zip (i prefer
zip to vel-cro). If you CAN, try as many different handles as you can (at
least for a few drills), before you decide what to get.

As for what weapon to do, a lot of people recommend what they like:
(if you really have a choice)
Personally, I lean towards starting out with foil, as the skills are more
adaptable to sabre and/or epee, than the other way around: the target is
central (torso only) so, it's a little less to focus on than including the arms
and head (and legs), and the defence is stressed, and it uses the construct of
priority of attack (a.k.a. right of way).

For some people, Starting in sabre makes it hard for them to learn how to use
the point, which kind of limits you;
starting in epee, makes the priority thing a little confusing for some people

For some people it's the other way: they can' t seem to understand the priority
concept no matter what you say, so they SHOULD start in epee.

No matter where you start, after you've taken the classes for a few months, and
things seem to be sinking in, I recommend taking 2-3 days/sessions in a row,
and lightly experimenting with the other 2 weapons, and consulting with clubs
coaches/instructors. You really won't be TOO entrenched in what you've
learned, and the footwork you'll have picked will be very transferrable anyway.
If you decide that fencing sabre/epee/foil is really what you want, rather
than what you were learning, this is a good time to switch, or not - Before you
buy a bunch of stuff.

If you stick with it after 6-8 weeks, start thinking about getting your own
mask anyway.

If you want to go to competition after a few months, try to borrow some gear,
considering youself obliged to replace anything broken.
(Except for school clubs) It's a little unusual for club$ to provide
competition (i.e. electric) gear, but they MIGHT let you borrow a jacket &
mask.
NOTE that competitions NORMALLY require the masks to pass a safety test, so
borrowing a beat up club mask could be a problem.
You will probably not want to do a lot of borrowing of other's personal
electric gear, nor will you likely find too many people jumping up and down to
lend theirs to you.

USFA Competitions require that each competitor have 2 working weapons, and 2
working body cords (taht connect to the scoring equipment). IF you have one of
your own, people are more likely to lend you one of theirs if they know it's
only your backup. The larger the tournament, less patience will be displayed
with any equipment problems you may have: If you go to an event billed as
'novice', 'beginner', or 'unclassifed' you will find a higher level of
tolerence, unless it's a pretty big event, regardless.

>I would appreciate a good discussion on this, as I am
>wanting to find out what I can, before I take any steps.

Relax, dive in!
It's a lot of fun, especially when you get the hang of it!

>Thank you all very much! This is a good newsgroup.
>From: Anonymous <cripto@ecn.org>

Ramble on!